Build Momentum - Thought Leadership for Education, Global Workforce Edition

S02E18 - From Educator to Edtech Leader | Brett Roer, Outlier.org

May 05, 2022 Sarah Williamson / Brett Roer Season 2 Episode 18
Build Momentum - Thought Leadership for Education, Global Workforce Edition
S02E18 - From Educator to Edtech Leader | Brett Roer, Outlier.org
Show Notes Transcript

In this episode of Build Momentum, we are joined by Brett Roer. Brett is the high school strategic partner lead for Outlier, an organization that’s setting out to create the world's best for-credit, university-level online courses—and offer them at a fraction of the cost of a traditional college or university. Brett spent 16 years empowering public high school students as an educator in Brooklyn, Queens, and the Bronx prior to joining Outlier.

Some Questions I Ask:

  • Would you start off by sharing more about your background as an educator and what led to your transition to edtech? (1:41)
  • How did you end up at Outlier? (4:53)
  • What are the differences between working in edtech and education? (6:55) 
  • What was your biggest takeaway from this year’s ASU-GSV Summit? (11:08)
  • How have you been able to navigate this new edtech world so seamlessly? And what is your advice for other companies and leaders and founders and CEOs looking to do the same? (13:12)
  • What final advice do you have? (19:37)

In This Episode, You Will Learn:

  • Bret Roer’s background in education (1:49)
  • About Brett and Outlier (5:06)
  • His transition from the education space to edtech (7:06)
  • His biggest takeaway from the ASU-GSV Summit (11:29)
  • How to successfully navigate the edtech world (13:52)
  • Final advice (19:51)

Quotes:

“Ultimately, [the edtech side] is very similar to education. We're partners. We're here to help students succeed. And in this exact instance, we're here to help school leaders and educators succeed. So that's really the biggest takeaway. The titles are different, but the same mindset, mentality, and quality of human beings is similar.”

“Build relationships, and the partnerships will come. The relationships are what matter now, and what will make you able to multiply those relationships into tangible partnerships. So that is step one. Do not pitch. Build trusting relationships. And if you're authentic about it, those other partnerships will come. Patience is difficult in this because educators and people in my field of edtech, we want results. We’re success- and result-oriented people. 

“I want high school students to experience this nationwide. It's not about the sale, it's about the experience and exposure for high school students. I don't want another year or two to wait for that student. So I have to temper my love for bringing this to students with knowing that is going to come in due course if you can build trusting relationships with innovative educators.”

Connect with Brett Roer:
Outlier website
Brett Roer's LinkedIn

Stay in touch with Sarah Williamson:
Free Case Study Guide
SWPR GROUP Website
LinkedIn

Stay in touch with Chad Bolser:
LinkedIn

About "The Secret to Transformational Leadership," which Sarah co-authored with Dr. Quintin Shepherd:
Transformational Leadership Secret website
Purchase the print or ebook

Sarah Williamson:

Hello and welcome to build momentum where we help education organizations blow past their competitors with strategies that make an impact. We think beyond traditional press releases and generic communication tactics, and seek out big, bold ideas to create meaningful results for our clients. I'm your host, Sarah Williamson. And I've spent more than 15 years in public relations for the education sector, where our team has learned what works and what doesn't when it comes to PR from launching groundbreaking new industry awards to landing sought after panels at the most prestigious shows. We absolutely love this stuff. But the best part is, we have an opportunity to interview some of the smartest people we know who share their knowledge and strategies for success right here on the show. If you enjoy what you hear, we would so appreciate it you please take a moment to drop us a review on whatever platform you listen. And if you want to learn more about us, visit swpr-group.com. Thanks so much for tuning in. Today. Let's dive into the show. On today's episode, we have Brett Roer, the high school strategic partner lead for outlier.org, an organization that is set out to create the world's best for credit university level online courses and offer them at a fraction of the cost of a traditional college or university. So Brett actually spent 16 years empowering public high school students as an educator in Brooklyn, Queens and the Bronx prior to joining outlier. Brett, it's so great to have you on build momentum. Thanks for joining me,

Brett Outlier:

Sarah, Thank you. This is an absolute honor and a pleasure.

Sarah Williamson:

Of course. So would you start off by sharing more about your background as an educator, and what led to your transition to EdTech?

Brett Outlier:

Absolutely. So I started out as a social studies

Sarah Williamson:

Wow. So you were clearly an overachiever. teacher at automotive high school in Brooklyn. And in my first few years, I was really fortunate that my principal selected me to become what was called the senior advisor. And that's where in addition to your teaching, you help students transition to graduating high school. And as I got into that role, many students started asking me for additional post secondary support. And I said, No, you can really speak to the college and career advisor about that that's not really my area of expertise. They were like, well, he locks us out of his office. And because my classroom was right across the hall, I started to notice this was an accurate true statement. My students were making. And so that built a lot of emotion in me of what are we preparing students what is this diploma to nowhere for? So I went back to my same principal and inspirational leader and I said, you can entrust me to help students graduate. If you can enttrust me to take on the College and Career advisory piece I'll still teach, I'll

Brett Outlier:

I was someone who always recognized the problem still do Senior Advisor. But I really want to make sure these students apply for financial aid and at least apply and get accepted to our local CUNY community colleges at a minimum. And so I was fortunate I took on that role are both high schools this transformational experience for me and other young educators. But unfortunately, one of the schools that were selected to be shut down due to underperformance by the New York City Department education, but I was fortunate to transition to another public high school in Queens, and they allowed me to build a college advisory program called College one on one, I got to build out over four years a nine to 12 college advisory with teachers teaching the course for elective credit for every single step of the way about how you can just be a little more prepared for your next step in your journey towards college and career success. From there, I was selected to become a principal or I got to turn around to high school campus in the Bronx, Bronx Compass High School were started out we had a 48% Grad rate and we were able to accelerate that to 87% within four years, and that led right up to the pandemic. So after being a pandemic principal, I recognize the need for even more support for students in the online dual enrollment space. And that is what led me to getting to opportunity to join didn't recognize a solution, but was always willing to throw my outlier.org and lead up their dual enrollment opportunities in high school space. hat in the ring.

Sarah Williamson:

I love that. You know, I recently heard I think actually Tiffany from IEI shared with me that counselors spend 38 minutes total with a high school student throughout the entire course of their career. Have you heard that set?

Brett Outlier:

I did by fortunately getting to listen to the podcast recently. And I have also echoed that quote, and I found the statistic online to validate how much that was without knowing that statistic. That was exactly my purpose in life. We're building a four year elective sequence around preparing you for the next step. Because individual college and career advisors for all of their efforts have only so much time in a day and a caseload that's always going to be larger than their bandwidth, but by allowing 30 students in a room to learn from one teacher over the course of four years and earn high school credit, so validating that why why do we need to know this has immediate and long term impact? So yes, that was exactly my issue. I couldn't be everywhere at once as a college and career advisor, but I could become a college and career teacher and then train other teachers as well to empower all the students in a college going culture and high school level.

Sarah Williamson:

Yeah, that's fantastic. It clearly is a need and Okay, so now you made your way to outlier. How did that happen? You were doing amazing work in public education. How did you end up conspiring to join Outlier? Will you share more about that?

Brett Outlier:

Absolutely. So I'm sure this story is going to resonate with so many folks who were leading schools. During the pandemic, we had a fantastic teacher, a unicorn who taught our higher level math as well as our computer science courses. And it became one of the foundational reasons why we would ask a New York City public middle school student to join Bronx compass, because we had this amazing STEM program pandemic happens as we know, it's a time of transition for so many members of education, this teacher left we did not have a backup computer science calculus, phenomenal teacher, and it made me immediately realize that, you know, that is not how you can build systemic change in an environment like the Bronx or many other school districts that I've encountered since joining outlier, you need, you know, a quality control and saying that you can replicate repeatedly for year after year cohorts of students. And so when the pandemic happened, and everyone's working so hard in our community to rebuild to make sure we were safe, we definitely recognize our efforts, were not translating immediately to having highly engaging versions of online education. So it definitely sparked to me, our efforts aren't meeting this moment. So what is and that was where I approached outlier. And their mission to reduce student debt and increase access to high quality education was that lightbulb for all the changes I made in my impact in public education, those were two things, I could not change the transferability of local dual enrollment credits, or even some of the in person AP or IB courses that schools offer, I couldn't make that an impact for my students once they left Bronx compass, as well as reducing their impact on their time spent at the college campus, or their total cost of attendance. So this was just the next evolution, I have the pandemic to thank for that light bulb going off, as we know, for all of the tragedy that the pandemic brought, it did bring some inspiration in education that I do hope translates into the future. That is how I ultimately discovered outlier. And I'm so fortunate that I get to be part of this amazing organization,

Sarah Williamson:

How has it been your transition? Because I know there are so many teachers who are making that jump and not taking that leap? What how's it been? What are the differences? You know, what are your biggest takeaways so far?

Brett Outlier:

Well, I think there's that moment of imposter syndrome, right? I've led in education. And I've worked my way through this very specific field, and had a lot of time to learn from my journey. And now I'm thrust into a brand new experience. So the first takeaway I had is similar education, it's find your tribe, find your allies, find the people that recognize something in you that you don't even know you have, and keep learning from them. So obviously, it's gotta give some quick shout outs to Terrence from Paper, Jeff, from Gaggle, I mean, these are two people who, when I got the opportunity to attend an AI summit in San Juan, and AASA in Nashville, these two people are some of the, you know, national leaders in ed tech. And they were just so generous with their time, their wisdom, just key reminders that you can do this. And here's some just basic first steps you should be taking in your journey. So that's so similar education that find the great people who also are not, they're amazing leaders in their field. But they're also recognizing that they want to make everyone stronger and better. Because ultimately, this is very similar to education, the EdTech side, we're partners, we're here to help students succeed. And in this exact instance, we're here to help school leaders and educators succeed. So that's really the biggest takeaway. The titles are different, but the same mindset mentality and quality of human beings is similar.

Sarah Williamson:

I agree with you. I think there's a lot of great people in education. And you mentioned a couple good ones, Jeff Patterson is a real stud and the work he does to help with all of the job listings, and the job fairs that he's hosting right now, particularly for teachers who are leaving the field. Hopefully, some are staying too, by the way, but just that's a really inspiring venture that he's just embarked on on just to be a support to the community. So that's pretty impressive. If you're anything like us, most likely,

Brett Outlier:

Yeah. who have felt overwhelmed by the number of leadership books sitting on your shelf, just waiting for the perfect moment to be cracked open. But as we've all witnessed over the past two years, many of the traditional pillars of leadership are starting to crumble around us. That's why together with Dr. Quintin Shepherd, a superintendent from Victoria Independent School District in Victoria, Texas, we decided to write our own leadership book. We're excited to share that The Secret to Transformational Leadership, which offers practical advice for changemakers in any industry at any level, who are ready to learn a new language of leadership is now available. Throughout the book, we share stories of leaders who are on their journey toward Compassionate Leadership, and the many lessons they've learned along the way. By celebrating and empowering those around us. We create a ripple effect of empathy, kindness, and a sense of purpose for our life's work. We hope you'll join us on this journey. The book is available now on Amazon and at transformationalleadershipsecret.com And then another obviously major bucket is the superintendents I've been fortunate enough to meet so yeah, two biggest takeaways since I didn't know I needed both in my new role and even in my previous role, you know, there's three supes that I just took immediately came to mind. Susan Enfield, Humbert and Aman sales, I've gotten to hear them speak now, four times in the past two months. And I keep going whenever I attend one of these large conferences to their panels. And the first one, like, why not explore other people. And I realized that because they make me feel so inspired only in my current role, but by where education is going, because there's leaders like that, who could speak eloquently, who are brave, who have a track record of success and inspiring an entire community, that that just keeps filling up my bucket. And every time I come back to, you know, New York, it makes me just want to continue to do this work, to keep trying to find these people and whatever avenues and methods I can. But those people are clearly stating what they want from edtech. They want people who are wanting to listen, who wants to partner and want to collaborate, they don't want you to show up and say I've solved your problem without first learning about what their unique problem is, and being a partner in the EdTech journey with educational leaders. So those are two big buckets. But those are the kinds of people that make you just so inspired every day to be part of this field.

Sarah Williamson:

I totally agree. And we recently saw each other at ASU GSV. What a fun show. That was such a great show, he had so much fun and learn so much. I think we both agreed, and what are some of your biggest takeaways from such a big show. And the reason I bring that up is both Tom Burton and Susan Enfield, I saw them speak there as well. And I couldn't agree more that they are just complete rockstars

Brett Outlier:

Yeah, so this was my second opportunity to attend ASU GSV. And so I think when I think back to the one last year, the biggest noticing was just how everyone, they were so excited to come back together in person. And I think everyone needed that space to kind of collectively grieve and share their stories of, you know, surviving the pandemic, not knowing what was to come later on. And 2021 2022 was more of a call to action. And I think it was like, around a few key areas. One, the trauma that students and educators suffered, how are we addressing it, and who are going to be the key leaders and making sure that, you know, students needs are met as we transition to, I guess we'll call post pandemic education two was hearing from some of those leaders I mentioned and others is how to ensure don't go backwards. And I think for all the lip service people have said that is really probably one of the biggest fears that I have as both an educator and in my new role in edtech is it's so easy to revert to what was comfortable. But it was so obvious that comfortable wasn't working for so many different demographics and education, that to go back would be a true loss on top of all the other suffering that people endured the past few years. So I think hearing from key leaders in both education and edtech, there is a pathway forward, we need to be brave and work together to meet it. And then the last person the person who crystallized that way better than me is obviously Darryl for Run DMC. He speak to me full of as tech leaders and educators and members of the GSV community. And he said it best right if we're not going to collaborate if we're not going to listen and learn from one another. With all this power, we collectively have both the, you know, school level. And then with technology, you know, that would really be the biggest misfortune from everything that's occurred the past few years, we need to keep collaborating together.

Sarah Williamson:

Run DMC says it best. I love that. Okay, so I had a front row seat to watch you in action, I noticed that ASU GSV. But also IEI in Puerto Rico, you're such a natural connector, you make promoting outlier looks super easy. And you're really building authentic relationships with organizations, superintendents, district leaders, and it seems like it's working for you. So I would love especially because this show is all about PR and building those relationships and authentically telling your story. Tell us more about how you've been able to navigate this new ad tech world so seamlessly. And if you have advice for other companies and leaders and founders and CEOs looking to do the same?

Brett Outlier:

Well, first of all, one thing I continually want to highlight recognize and appreciate is that you and many of the people in your network are who I consider the leaders who I continue to look to, and aspire to in terms of how to build authentic relationships in this new space. So any time I'm recognized, many of you all believe me, I'm blushing very much on this side of this recording. What I definitely want to highlight is what makes it easy to want to be so passionate about outliers because as I mentioned, when I first started, I only applied to one edtech company. I applied to outlier that work because I'm so passionate believe in the mission. It is just a larger impact than I ever could have hoped to imagine starting out like I said as a teacher in Brooklyn, who was just call to action by what I saw was a grave injustice. Never in a million years could I have extrapolated where this could take me one day. So, so fortunate and that just again makes the work for looking for a visionary leader. You know, Aaron Rasmussen is the CEO and founder of outlier, the co founder of masterclass to get to work with folks like that, who have a vision for how to inspire, hopefully the entire committee of education around a better way to do college online with the best university professors in the world. So I just want to state that That can't be clearly enough said find an organization that aligns with your purpose and mission. And then it's never work, right? It's just talking about something. So that's one, two, for all that presion provided me, I definitely wanna say I have definitely learned a lot from my mistakes. I think one of the biggest ones is, you mentioned it, and I do credit, my passion for outlier. With this, I have been able to form relationships with educators, both on my previous experiences and bonding over the last few years of leadership, but also in the transition to EdTech. And online dual enrollment courses. This is what I truly believe in. However, I have noticed that don't mistake that initial spark with meaning it's time to transition to sales are pitching, foster and nurture relationships, I cannot stress that enough is how different I approached this now, just a few months after getting to go on all these different conferences in this initial beginning of 2022. I now recognize and so many supes told me this. And in the moment, while they're telling me this, I'm still like not receiving the information and really putting into practice. Build relationships, the partnerships will come, the relationships are what will matter now, and what will make you you know, be able to multiply those relationships into tangible partnerships within their networks. So that is step one, do not pitch, build trusting relationships. And if you're authentic about it, those other partnerships will come. Patience is difficult in this because educators and people in my field of edtech, we want results where success result oriented people and I guess the reason why sometimes I push it is I want high school students experience this nationwide, it's not about the sale, it's about the experience and exposure for high school students, I don't want another year or two to wait for that student. So I have to temper my love for bringing this to students with that is going to come in due course, if you can build trusting relationships with innovative educators. So I hope that was helpful for anyone out there who's also made this transition or was looking to expand a mission driven organization.

Sarah Williamson:

I couldn't agree more. That is so well said and I think people don't talk about that enough. I think we assume that, oh, I'm friends with them, let me pitch that. No, because then all of a sudden, you might actually harm your friendship and your new bonding relationship that you're creating with those superintendents, or anyone. So for me, I have to just think about, just continue. And the funny thing is, the more you become friendly and play basketball with them and IEI events, the more people will approach you about, for example, doing their PR, and it's continuing to work for me too. So I completely agree.

Brett Outlier:

Yeah. And that also, I just want to shout out to two major organizations that when I think about what does it mean to build a trusting relationship. And again, I want to continue to be honest and say, learn from your mistakes. IEI that network of superintendents, and you know, Partners in Education Solutions. That's a great example of just when you're there, you get a chance to pitch in a two minute drill and really show your passionate enthusiasm for why you want to work with these amazing school districts. But it's that downtime, it's a time to just build authentic relationships and don't try to leave they're closing a deal one, so many suits are just so they've given you so much of their time to explain, like, that's not how this will work, we will we build a relationship, I will bring this back to my team, I am the superintendent said is they are very team oriented, they're not going to just immediately say, Wow, Brett, let's do this. That would be you know, that would just be not a good leadership on there. And so build the relationship there so that you can take it away and also realize you're going to see these people more and more often at future events and conferences, and they are already going to have a built in network there. So again, it's about building that trusting relationship. And the other organization I wanted to highlight, it's been an amazing partner without their.org so far is the League of innovative schools, the same thing. I mean, it's an umbrella of the most innovative people in the world trying to make change at districts nationwide. And when they come together, I mean, the energy and the passion and just the inspiration and spark in the room is amazing. And I say those two, those two organizations, because the last thing I want to highlight is if you get the chance, and I say this to people in edtech, or really anyone if there's an innovative or inspiring leader asked to visit their school. Again, this is not for a sales, it's to fill you up and see like what you're doing and why it matters. It's been amazing on the other side is just to get to visit innovative school. So I got to visit Lakota on the League of innovative school convening in the Cincinnati region and Golden Valley at the ASU GSV Summit. And to not be a school there. Just get to walk into schools and just be inspired. And even if it hadn't been an amazing experience, which it was not having to worry about anything other than just like be present. Enjoy. Watch students be excited about learning. Just do yourself a favor. When you connect with someone in education. Just ask if you're permitted to visit their school and see what makes them most excited about their own job or their own aspect of change in education, that I'd highly recommend.

Sarah Williamson:

Great suggestion. And if you're a parent, get in your kids classrooms, if you're allowed do it. It's amazing that what you can see and what you can experience. All right, this is awesome. Is there any final advice or was that your final advice?

Brett Outlier:

I think this book I read to my children all the time, be bold, be brave and be you and hopefully you continue to just find your purpose. and education, wherever that leads you to and to try just keep inspiring educators and each other to do best by students.

Sarah Williamson:

Amazing you are a rock star. So fun to have you on the show, you have a really great lesson to impart that I think we can all apply it in whenever industry, I mean, hopefully education, but we can all apply these life lessons. So thank you so much. Appreciate your time today.

Brett Outlier:

Yes, thank you so much again.

Sarah Williamson:

I'll see you soon at another event soon.

Brett Outlier:

Can't wait. Thanks again, Sarah .

Sarah Williamson:

Thanks so much for tuning in today. If you enjoyed the show, if you wouldn't mind leaving a review, we'd be so grateful. This helps other listeners find and learn about our show. And please reach out if you're interested in learning more about how we can elevate the leaders of your organization with our PR services. If you'd like you can even shoot me a direct email at Sarah sarah@swpr-group.com. I look forward to hearing from you and we will see you next time.