Thinking about launching a Podcast? | JW Marshall

In this episode of Build Momentum, we are joined by JW Marshall, the director of learning solutions at Marketscale and a fellow podcast host of the Voices of E-learning show.

Some Questions I Ask:

• Are there any themes emerging from these leaders, as we kind of think about a new school year this fall and what we hope is the end of the pandemic? What insights can you share with us? (1:17)
• What's your advice to those people who are thinking about doing podcasts? What would you say? (5:20)
• So you said plan it out. But how does that look? Can you get a little more detailed? (7:55)
• But how do you stay focused? What do you do to stay focused? (10:16)
• We all want to know the answer to the million-dollar question exactly. How do you grow your audience? (14:30)
• If you were going to start over, and you're launching your podcast again, would you do anything differently? (17:25)
• What are  some of your favorite shows that you listen to (19:34)

In This Episode, You Will Learn:

• Themes emerging for the coming school year. (1:27)
• When is the time to start a podcast (5:36)
• Detailed planning for starting a podcast. (7:55)
• Staying Focused in building momentum for your podcast (10:19)
• Growing your Audience in different ways (14:43)
• Considering the use of video as podcasts episodes (17:31)

Quotes:

“Don't wait any longer to start a podcast, it's time to jump in. There's never been a better time the technology is there.."

“ Think through what you're going to do and how you're going to do it. Be strategic.”

“You got to have a plan and you got to stick to the plan and you got to execute. And again, you want to get through those first 10 to 20 episodes and then you'll really start seeing the fruits of your labor. So stick with it..”

"I would say find things that inspire you and follow those leads."

"Don't underestimate the power of video podcasts"

“Sometimes some more passionate person that's driven is kind of beat out everyone else. And you see the next person to have a million followers and listeners and things like that. So don't wait. Don't sit back and wait. Get out there and do it and try it. Learn from your mistakes, be consistent”

Connect with JW Marshall:
Voices of E-Learning Podcast
JW Marshall LinkedIn
JW Marshall Email
JW Marshall Twitter

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Transcript

Sarah Williamson: 0:05

Hello, and welcome to build momentum where we make PR easy for education organizations. This show was created to help edtech startups, research institutes and schools learn how to develop simple, replicable PR strategies and how to execute on those strategies. I'm your host, Sarah Williamson. And I've spent the past 15 years working in PR, where I've been able to understand what works and what doesn't when it comes to making an impact. I will share my tips for success and interview others who have done the same to provide you with the framework that you can use within your own organization, be sure to grab my free guide how to create a killer case study, even if you don't have data at casestudy.swpr-group.com. That's casestudy.swpr-group.com And on today's episode, we have the pleasure of chatting with JW Marshall, the director of learning solutions at marketscale, and a fellow podcast host of the voices of E learning show. JW it's so great to have you on the show today.

JW Marshall: 1:06

It's so great to be on the show. Thanks for having me.

Sarah Williamson: 1:08

Absolutely. Okay, so I know JW speak with so many education leaders on your show. I would love to understand what you're hearing if there are any themes emerging from these leaders, as we kind of think about a new school year this fall and what we hope is the end of the pandemic, do you have any insights you can share with us?

JW Marshall: 1:27

Absolutely. There's so much good happening right now in education. And I think the most encouraging theme I keep hearing over and over is that schools and school districts are really reimagining education and really trying to build a better fall 2021 than we've ever had before. And we're not trying to go back to where we were in the fall of 2019, which is our natural human tendency is to go back to normal back to where the way it were before. And unfortunately, we were in this pandemic for over a year. But fortunately, that was enough time to really break a lot of that habits and old thinking and really embrace technology as not just a supplement anymore to education, but really as a part of the core. And I think the other big thing I've heard is that educators have really moved forward from thinking technology or AI is coming to take their jobs, they have really been forced, unfortunately, to embrace technology. And for the most part, they've really been pleasantly surprised and are now thinking well, I probably should have embraced this a little sooner, but better late than never. And now we're going to really leverage the power of technology to enhance the learner experience and enhance the teaching experience. And so so many silver linings coming out of this terrible pandemic. But I think the most exciting things are that everyone is more excited now than they've ever been about education because it's giving them time back to be able to do the things that they got into teaching to do spend more one on one time with students more small group time students really take data and leverage it and give better work experiences and to different student populations to different levels of learners to really finally get to that personalized learning thing we've been talking about for 10 or 20 years now. And so I think the big concern is teacher burnout. And we really have to give our teachers a break this summer, more professional development is not the right answer. Better professional development is the right answer. So less is more quality over quantity, give them a break, because it has been a grueling year plus, and even our administrators, heroes of the pandemic, driving around hotspots, things like that, give him a little bit of a break here in July, hopefully, and then really gear up strategically to hit the ground running this fall in this new, exciting time in history in education.

Sarah Williamson: 3:48

Yeah, I totally agree about the break. I mean, this has been a ringer. And I hope that they're able to recharge over the summer, and start thinking positively about school again this fall after they had a chance to take a break. One other interesting thing you shared is about teachers kind of being hesitant about technology before and now fully embracing it. And I love what Jean Sharp from Apex learning has shared. She's the chief academic officer at Apex learning. And she always says if teachers don't understand the importance of their role after this year, I mean, I don't know what to say about that, because we cannot have technology without educators driving it.

JW Marshall: 4:25

Absolutely. And to that point, and maybe the larger point if parents and community members and everyone else that's a part of education doesn't realize the value of the teachers after this last year, then you're not, you know, paying attention because right i think that's another silver lining is this greater sense of respect and understanding of the teaching profession and how hard it is. And so I really hope that something that sticks with us moving into this post pandemic time, is that parents and community members continue to remember how hard this is and how hard it was. For everyone moving forward.

Sarah Williamson: 5:02

Yeah, I agree with you. Okay, so let's switch gears quickly. I know JW, you are a podcast host, but you're also kind of a podcast expert. If you can, if you you're probably not watching the video, because I'm only gonna share audio for this episode. But I'm talking to JW in his fancy studio, and even as a producer, and he knows how to launch podcasts. So many of my listeners have thought about launching a podcast before but it feels super overwhelming. What's your advice to those people who are thinking about doing it? What would you say?

JW Marshall: 5:36

I would say two things. Number one, don't wait any longer start a podcast, it's time to jump in. There's never been a better time the technology is there. People want to listen, the audience for podcasting continues to grow at about 20% a year. So they're just really important conversations that need to be had. And so don't wait any longer start. But at the same time, think through what you're going to do and how you're going to do it be strategic. So I've seen a lot of podcast hopefuls kind of launch in and they start recording every week, and then they miss a week. And then they missed two weeks. And then a month or two later, they just kind of say, well, it didn't work, you know, podcasting is not for me. And so if you don't really have a plan of attack, and then what I mean by that is, you know, planning out your first at least five or 10 guests, and really, you know, doing the work preparing and trying to do a really high quality recording or audio recording, which again, is very inexpensive. Now, yeah, and then releasing those on a release schedule, whether that's once a month, every other week, every week, you know, being a least a few weeks, if not a month ahead is really important. Sometimes I would even recommend a season ahead. And a season can be whatever number you want have episodes, which is great. Some people have a five episode season or a 10 episode season, some crazy people like me may have 20 or 50 episodes in the season. But think of it as season one, who do you want, what's the message is going to be and then stop thinking and overthinking and dive in and start asking people to be a part of it. And once you start the wheel going, it's a lot easier to keep that momentum moving forward, because you've started to see some success and gain some traction. And I would say once you get past about 10 episodes or so you'll probably start having folks reach out to you saying hey, love the show, writing good reviews, maybe even saying hey, you know who should have on next, this person or this person, or, hey, I would like to be on your show. And I feel like if that's kind of the critical point, the first checkmark that you want to get to is having some audience engagement, having some people notice the show and reach out to you wanting to be a part of it or recommend people and then you know, you're kind of off and running.

Sarah Williamson: 7:45

Yeah, great advice. I also think it's important to reiterate, it's not expensive at all, you mentioned that it's not I mean, what would be literally the first step. So you said plan it out. But how does that look? Can you get a little more detailed? Do you mind?

JW Marshall: 8:00

Sure. So I would really think about what do you want the message of the show to be the theme of the show, you don't want to be someone that just kind of gets up and talks about something random and different each time, that's gonna be really hard to build an audience, right? So you want to focus in on at least one key area. So for example, the voices of E learning is really focusing on edtech companies, and those that are involved in K through 12. and higher ed, even adult learning, you know, online learning, creation, delivery, distribution, you know, consumption, right, and so there's a focus there, then, once you have kind of your topic, your theme, really thinking through who in your network, do you know that would be good people to tap into first, it's always easy to start with who you know, start with what you know. So list those folks out. And then typically, it's kind of like dominoes, once you get the first couple to commit, not only do you have a little more confidence, but also you can then say, hey, I've heard so and so and so and so on, would you like to be on it, maybe it's someone you don't know as well. And then once you string a few more of those kind of second degree connections, you'll probably start getting some inbound. And you're even more confident to say I've reached out to some people early on in my podcast launch on LinkedIn that I didn't think for a million years would respond to me Let alone and say, Yeah, I'd love to be a part of your show. And so if you don't ask, you're not going to get those folks. So it is a little salesy, you have to put yourself out there a little bit. There could be some some rejection, I've got a few of those as well, hey, just you know, doesn't seem like a good fit for us, or you getting no response. But you'd be surprised once you build a little momentum, you have a few names to drop, even if they're not huge names, then more momentum builds, you get another, you know, bigger name or two, and then you hang your hat on those and you get a few more. And so it really does snowball quickly. It's a lot of work upfront, but it's worth it. And so I really can't stress enough throughout this episode, you got to have a plan and you got to stick to the plan and you got to execute. And again, you want to get through those first 10 to 20 episodes and then you'll really start Seeing the fruits of your labor. So stick with it.

Sarah Williamson: 10:03

Absolutely, totally agree. How do you keep the momentum going and stay dedicated to it? Because I think you're doing two a week, right?

JW Marshall: 10:10

I am.

Sarah Williamson: 10:11

Wow. It's hard to do one a week I'm trying to get ahead of my planning. And even That's hard. But how do you stay focused? What do you do to stay focused?

JW Marshall: 10:19

So I would definitely not recommend doing two a week. It's a lot. I know some people that do daily show, that's just crazy. To me. That's crazy. Yeah, be the majority of what you do with your day, every day, if you do. Yeah, so I would recommend once a week at the most even every other week is a pretty good cadence once a month is a little slow, because it's gonna take you a year to start building a foundation. So either once a week or every other week is probably my recommendation to start. But again, trying to have those first five to 10 episodes already recorded, already edited, if you do a little light editing, and then releasing them out on a proper cadence, and then you can always stay ahead of the game to get those recorded. So we really try in our show to stay at least two weeks ahead of the game. So when people write in and they want to be part of the show, or PR agencies reach out to you, which you will also see once you've kind of built a resume of shows, it is really great to say hey, we'd love to have that person from the company representing on the show, we're booked out for the next two or three weeks with the first week of you know, August work for you something like that. And that really helps you stay motivated, because the last thing you want to do is kind of be scrambling every week. Oh, no, who am I going to get and it happens to all of us, it's happened to me before, so don't feel like it's, you know, never happens, it certainly happens to the best of us. But the more you can do to kind of stay a few episodes ahead and stay a few weeks ahead is really going to help your stress levels, and it's going to help you enjoy the conversations more. For me, I really think that's a big part of my motivation is of all the other things I do in my role. And then my life getting to do these episodes is really life giving it gives me energy. So if you do feel like you've done these first five episodes as a pilot or 10 episodes, and it's just beating you down, then maybe it's not, you know, something that you should just force yourself to do. But again, if you find the right topics that you're passionate about, and you find the right guests that you know, or you respect, where you're genuinely curious to interview, that's a big thing. For me, I learned something almost every time in my show that forget everybody else listening, I'm interested and absolutely right, that really shows through in the episodes. So your audience can tell if you're being authentic, or if you're just kind of doing your job. And so, as you're the creator of your own destiny, your own show, keep those things in mind. You know, if you were starting a band, you would start a cover band start covering songs that you liked, and you would want to play right? So really think through in the beginning, is this something that is going to give me energy every week or every two weeks? And is this something that is going to make a difference, because I think that's really important too, is having a show that you feel like is touching someone's life, bringing some new information to the world bringing, you know, some kind of hope to others or, you know, again, educating others on you know, things that you know, and things that you're just know, and sharing with the world is really powerful. And so I would say find things that inspire you and follow those leads.

Sarah Williamson: 13:10

I love that advice. And I also think it's important to call out if it doesn't feel like a bit stuck doing it. I mean, if it's painful, don't do it. But do it for yourself as much as others. Absolutely, because I totally agree with you. I'm looking to grow my audience. But I love every interview that I do. It's just so much fun.

JW Marshall: 13:30

Yeah. And you'll find as you get going those first five or 10 episodes, you'll learn that some of them are more inspiring to you than others. And you know, okay, for season two, or for ongoing guests, these are the type of people I want to, you know, go for, these are the type of conversations I want to have. They're not all going to be homeruns, you're not going to walk away from everyone going, Oh, man, that was the greatest podcast ever recorded. But more often than not, you should feel really great about it. And you should learn something each time you do it. Yeah, that's the other thing is, I would say it took me a good three 510 episodes just to kind of find my own voice find my own confidence in asking questions and not feeling like I'm stuttering or saying and and too often and things like that. So just know. And that's why it's good to find people you know, at first to have on because they're going to be very understanding and forgiving, and they're going to make you comfortable. And that's really a key part for most podcast hosts, as you continue on to talking to folks who don't know, is making your guests comfortable, which is really important because then you're going to get the best out of them.

Sarah Williamson: 16:14

Absolutely couldn't agree more. Totally. So how do you grow your audience? I know this is the ultimate question. We all want to know the answer to right or the million dollar question exactly. How do you do it?

JW Marshall: 16:27

Well, so on top of number one being consistent, same day, same time, release your episodes, so I release my episodes on Mondays and Thursdays early in the morning that the audience gains some consistency in knowing When it's coming out, and a lot of people are habitual in their podcasts listening, so they know certain shows come out certain times, and they're planning to listen on their drive in or out, or while they're doing laundry, whatever their routine is, they like to time it together. So that's kind of a simple one. But it is really hard to actually execute on is to really stay on top of the schedule and release them, you know, consistently, the more fun marketing answers would be, of course, social media promotion is big on all the platforms that are relevant to your audience. So notice, I didn't say all the platforms because your audience may really live more on LinkedIn, or someone else may have an audience who lives more on Facebook, you don't feel like you have to do all of them just because they all exist that conveys lasting so pick the ones where your audiences and where you are, and meet the two together. So my audience happens to be more on LinkedIn than Facebook and Instagram and other platforms. Also on Twitter is kind of a secondary. So really pick on primary, maybe a primary and a secondary social platform and be again consistent. I really liked the format of kind of sound bites of pulling out kind of a quick clip to post as a teaser. And that's the way a lot of people consume a podcast initially now is just clips, they're rolling out until they've listened to enough clips, and then thought you know what, this is worth me spending a little more time watching or listening to a full episode. So don't underestimate the power of clips. Also, don't underestimate the power of impressions right there, you're getting people exposed to consistently putting your message out there. Don't be offended if hundreds or 1000s of people don't show up to your first episode or your first 10 episodes, just know that they are seeing you being consistently out there. I've had plenty of people in the last several months, come up to me or message me on LinkedIn, go, Hey, congrats on the podcast sounds like you're doing a really great job. They've never listened to an episode yet. But they see it out there consistently. They're impressed with it. And eventually, they're going to listen and hopefully get hooked in and become a subscriber and a consistent listener. So that would be you know, the easy way is again, typically free to promote on social, if you have any kind of subscription list or a way to gain subscriptions through an email, or weekly or every other week. Email is also a good touch point. Really, you want to be as omni channel as you can be without wearing yourself out and making sure that you're doing the things that are connecting with your target audience.

Sarah Williamson: 19:04

Love it. Perfect advice. I agree with everything you said. Perfect. Perfect. Yeah. Okay. So if you were going to start over, and you're launching your podcast again, would you do anything differently.

JW Marshall: 19:15

So it's funny because mine launched in the middle of the pandemic, when everyone was at home, I launched mine audio only. And I think if I could relaunch and was in, you know, an office environment or had a nicer home office, I would have went straight to a video podcast, and then stripped the audio out and posted the audio on all the places people listen to audio as well, just because I made the switch to video podcasts earlier this year, and have seen a tremendous growth from that date. Interesting that people love the video, the video views are even higher than the audio views, but the audio views are up consistently as well. And so it really is a two for one where I would just recommend recording everything video, even if you don't use it, because it's good to have the archives because you're gonna wish you would have if you don't do it, and you'll get more comfortable on camera as well. So I would have dove right into video and audio and just kind of went all in if I had to do over again. But at the same time, it's a little less intimidating to be audio only. It's a little more low tech. So you get a nice microphone for $30 or $40. And you plug it in and you're ready to go. So I would say that's not a bad strategy. But if you're looking to do a show, I would say video should be in your future, whether it's a month or two after you start your own audio only podcast or season two. Hey, now we're on video as well. I think that is the future that's the way things are going. It's also going to help your SEO to have video and audio recordings out there in the world. So I would definitely not underestimate the power of video.

Sarah Williamson: 20:50

Yeah, I agree with you shout out to Zen caster because they added video several months ago which has been awesome because I was using Zen caster and it was audio only and now it's video to which it generally works very well. For the most part and

JW Marshall: 21:03

and I believe it's Spotify and Apple are going to start accepting video podcasts soon, as well. And I think Google already does so it's a trend in the industry is moving in that direction as well. Also, yeah, don't underestimate the power of video podcasts.

Sarah Williamson: 21:18

Yeah, I agree. Okay, so what are your some of your favorite shows that you listen to Ooh, this is a tough one. And I have to admit, I don't have much time myself who listened to other shows consistently, but I do as part of my homework, tried to listen to a number of different shows to pull best practices from them. And so one that I actually really enjoy is called the ROB cast. With a guy named Rob Bell, and I like him, because he's been doing this for a number of years, kind of before podcasting was as cool as it is. And in listening to his, he's a former mega church, you know, Minister, who's then become an author. And now what he does is it really is more of an artist and a media creator. Mini does a lot of sessions on how to follow your passions, how to create great art, how to create great media, that type of thing. And he's a very honest, and so I've gotten to kind of watch his journey of mistakes, but just learnings as he's gone. He's kind of vocalized those, hey, when I started, I started doing this. And he jumped right into the episodes and didn't think anybody want to hear about other things going on in the world. And then, you know, a year in, a lot of people gave me feedback that, hey, it's okay to be a little self promoting in as long as it's authentic. Just little lessons like that, that have been interesting to listen to over the years of this show. So other than that, I just really try to dive in and kind of listen to episodes of shows that I feel like are going to be helpful for me. And then of course, my colleague, Kevin Hogan, produces a show called edtech. Today, which I try to listen to every week. He does his twice a week as well, which is tough. And then of course, this podcast, I try to listen to every week as well and Apex Learning podcasts as well. Opportunity Thrives. Yeah. You mentioned Jean earlier. She's a great guest host as well. And Jason over there. So yeah, you try to kind of follow your colleagues closely and learn from them. And so those are some of my shortlist of shows that I listen to Love it. Awesome. Okay, how can our listeners learn more about you? Where can they find you JW?

JW Marshall: 23:24

Yeah, so it's pretty easy to find me on market scale, comm go into our education, publication, and shows, you'll see Voices of E-learning they're also can find me on LinkedIn, very happy to connect with you if you need anything. podcast host advice. Education, technology is my background. So anything education, and in general media marketing, my current role is helping b2b businesses, most of which are tech companies connect with their audiences. So anything I can do to help any of your listeners in any way, reach out to me on LinkedIn, or I guess you can email me as well old school, jw.marshal@marketscale.com and I would love to interact with anyone, your audience.

Sarah Williamson: 24:09

Perfect. This is awesome. This has been super fun. I think our listeners will really benefit from some of your advice. And you're just an all around. fantastic day. So thank you.

JW Marshall: 24:20

Thank you. And I'm also have to say I'm inspired by your show, you put on great episodes, you have great guests, you're practicing what you preach. So thank you for thank you for this episode to help your audience and hopefully get more passionate people and podcasting game because I can tell you, it's been very fulfilling and rewarding for me. I think it will be for a lot of others. But at the same time, if you'd asked me two years ago, if I would be doing a podcast and would have 70 plus episodes under my belt and interview some pretty high profile people, I would have thought you were crazy as well. So if you're sitting there today going, Yeah, great for this guy. He's got a studio and a producer. I didn't when I started. And so hopefully, anyone and everyone can do this. And sometimes some more passionate person that's driven is kind of beat out everyone else. And you see the next person to have a million followers and listeners and things like that. So don't wait. Don't sit back and wait. Get out there and do it and try it. Learn from your mistakes, be consistent. And I'll look forward to hopefully someone someday saying I listened to JW and Sara's podcast and inspired me to start one and now they're way bigger than both of us.

Sarah Williamson: 25:27

I hope that happens. Keep us posted all. So well. Thank you so much. I hope to have you back on soon. Have a fantastic day. JW thanks again. Thank you so much. Have a great day. Yes and build momentum listeners. Don't forget to grab my free guide to creating a killer case study even if you don't have data. Again, that's available at casestudy.swpr-group.com casestudy.swpr-group.com. Thanks so much for tuning in today. And if you've enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to our podcast and write us a review on iTunes, Spotify, or whatever platform you choose to listen. We will be back with another episode of build momentum next week. Thanks so much and have a fantastic day.