In this episode of Build Momentum, we are joined by Katie Lash. Katie is the Director of the East Central Education Service Center in Indiana. Katie is a former fourth-grade teacher, a special education teacher, and a former principal. She has also been an adjunct faculty member at Indiana University East since 2015.
Katie will be joining as a co-host in this season of Build Momentum, and together we will be exploring how to leverage key partners, constituencies, and the media to authentically impact organizations and the leaders who champion them.
Some Questions I Ask:
In This Episode, You Will Learn:
Quotes:
“We don't necessarily have a teacher shortage. Teachers exist, [but] they're leaving this particular field. There are plenty of licensed teachers. Teachers are a really hot commodity to be recruited into other professions.”
“Sometimes I am the decision maker—there might be a product that, depending on what it does, the service center itself needs to buy. But in other situations, maybe we're not the purchaser—we might be the door. We know the districts well and know exactly what they're looking for. And so sometimes, I can get [a vendor] right to the person they need to be talking to, and they can skip 10 steps because I already know who they need to meet.”
“I'm really excited to see the districts authentically using the service center and letting me help convene them as a lot of fun and just hearing them brainstorm together.”
Stay in touch with Sarah Williamson:
Free Case Study Guide
Stay in touch with Sarah Williamson:
Free Case Study Guide
SWPR GROUP Website
LinkedIn
Stay in touch with Chad Bolser:
LinkedIn
About "The Secret to Transformational Leadership," which Sarah co-authored with Dr. Quintin Shepherd:
Transformational Leadership Secret website
Purchase the print or ebook
In this episode of Build Momentum, we are joined by Katie Lash. Katie is the Director of the East Central Education Service Center in Indiana. Katie is a former fourth-grade teacher, a special education teacher, and a former principal. She has also been an adjunct faculty member at Indiana University East since 2015.
Katie will be joining as a co-host in this season of Build Momentum, and together we will be exploring how to leverage key partners, constituencies, and the media to authentically impact organizations and the leaders who champion them.
Some Questions I Ask:
In This Episode, You Will Learn:
Quotes:
“We don't necessarily have a teacher shortage. Teachers exist, [but] they're leaving this particular field. There are plenty of licensed teachers. Teachers are a really hot commodity to be recruited into other professions.”
“Sometimes I am the decision maker—there might be a product that, depending on what it does, the service center itself needs to buy. But in other situations, maybe we're not the purchaser—we might be the door. We know the districts well and know exactly what they're looking for. And so sometimes, I can get [a vendor] right to the person they need to be talking to, and they can skip 10 steps because I already know who they need to meet.”
“I'm really excited to see the districts authentically using the service center and letting me help convene them as a lot of fun and just hearing them brainstorm together.”
Stay in touch with Sarah Williamson:
Free Case Study Guide
Stay in touch with Sarah Williamson:
Free Case Study Guide
SWPR GROUP Website
LinkedIn
Stay in touch with Chad Bolser:
LinkedIn
About "The Secret to Transformational Leadership," which Sarah co-authored with Dr. Quintin Shepherd:
Transformational Leadership Secret website
Purchase the print or ebook
Hello and welcome to Build Momentum, a show where we explore thought leadership and education. I'm Sarah Williamson, the founder of SWPR Group.
Katie Lash:And I'm Katie Lash, the director of the East Central Educational Service Center.
Sarah Williamson:Together, we explore how to leverage key partners, your constituencies and the media to authentically impact your organizations and the leaders who champion them. We can't wait to get started. So let's dive into today's show. Katie Lash, Welcome to Build Momentum.
Katie Lash:I'm so excited to be here with you, Sarah.
Sarah Williamson:So great to have you. So happy that you're here with me and you're gonna be here with me all season. I'm so thrilled. Yay.
Katie Lash:We've talked about this. So it's now coming to life.
Sarah Williamson:I know it's coming to fruition. Here we are the dynamic duo Katie and Sarah in the flesh recording a podcast. So I thought we should kick off this episode by sharing with everyone how we met. I'll tell you what, how I think we met and you can correct me or whatever. I feel like we're telling our love story. But we kind of are
Katie Lash:That we got made fun of afterwards.
Sarah Williamson:Yes, that's true.
Katie Lash:That's really all in Good fun. All of it.
Sarah Williamson:All in good fun. So Institute for Education for innovation. IEI and Doug Roberts is a client of SWPR Group. And I attended the summit in Puerto Rico, where we had the pleasure of meeting superintendents and vendor partners and the Puerto Rican DoE. It was fascinating conversations. But Katie and I started talking one evening, late afternoon, and we pretty much haven't stopped talking since then. I think it was our meet cute moment, if we're talking about rom com. But basically, we've just had so much fun chatting about education, and the potential we could have to transform education together. And all of the ways we want to improve everything and all of our opinions, our many opinions,
Katie Lash:Our many, many opinions. I think that's actually where the conversation started, is we wanted to tell people things, and it wasn't appropriate. So then let in a moment. So then later, we're like, how do we help these folks? And then that led to the podcast
Sarah Williamson:That led to the podcast. Yeah, that's our goal is to help everyone with their thought leadership
Katie Lash:Genuinely though, where I think genuinely, people thought we were sisters. When we were there. Like they thought we already knew each other. We have similar kind of, I don't know, look about us. And so then we're like long lost twins. Ironically, we both have twins.
Sarah Williamson:Ironically, we both have twins. We both have husbands named John. Yeah. And I thought there was other some other words,
Katie Lash:When's your birthday?
Sarah Williamson:October 20.
Katie Lash:Oh mine is October 19. But yeah, we knew Yeah, very similar. See, it's kind of creepy.
Sarah Williamson:It is very creepy. Anyway, this is what you're gonna get this season of Build Momentum. I hope you like it. Hope you haven't already tuned out. So hang with us. We're gonna have a lot of great conversations with superintendents with the US Department of Education, we're going to be talking about how we can work more cohesively together with district leaders and vendor partners, and all the different ways that we have the potential to increase your impact and your message and get the word out about your company, or who you are as a district leader. Either way, we want to talk about it this season on Build Momentum.
Katie Lash:Very excited. Very excited.
Sarah Williamson:Me too. I'm so so excited. So Katie, will you tell us about your background, how you got into the work you're in now and share more about your role at the East Central Indiana service center?
Katie Lash:Sure, sure thing. So I was a very strange High School Student I knew before I graduated that when I grew up, I want to be a superintendent of schools. And so I live in rural Indiana and I saw the value that a superintendent brings to the community again, not just as a school leader, but a community leader. And so my dad was on the school board for a lot of years. And so really, I just had my sights set on that. So I went the traditional route to that role, I suppose I studied in undergrad, I studied elementary education and taught fourth grade from my first teaching job, actually, in North Carolina, moved back to Indiana taught high school special education. Then I was middle school principal finished my superintendents license. Well, obviously before that, my principalship and licensure and then my superintendents licensure really thinking I was headed to a district admin role. And then I had good relationships in the area knew a lot of the superintendents knew a lot about the region and someone I honestly just don't even remember someone was like, well, had you considered the service center, and quite frankly, I hadn't, but I knew that, you know, that's the type of leadership role that I was looking to move into. And so interviewed really, honestly For being fully transparent, I kind of thought that it was, you know, going to be my door into the superintendency. And so coming in, I thought, you know, it's just going to be, it's going to be a good experience. But now that I had this experience, maybe I'll end up in the superintendency, but maybe not. So yeah, like good life lessons here, I guess to be had because I've just up until now, I had a very one track mind where I was headed. And now the world is at our fingertips. They're the world's at our fingertips.
Sarah Williamson:Truly is, it's really is. That is a pretty impressive story. Very inspirational. I love it. So a lot of people we talked to a lot of companies we talked to at IEI events, summits, conferences, ASU GSB still seem to be a little bit confused about the role service centers play in the education ecosystem. So would you clear up some of that confusion for us and help people understand the broader role that you play within the communities? And how you help students and superintendents throughout multiple districts?
Katie Lash:Sure, sure. That's a great question. Well, and probably there's good reason for companies to be confused by us are kind of confusing. One of my favorite parts of going to the event where we met is there are other service center directors that attend those. And there's where there are a few of us, I guess every state has, what my understanding is that every state has some version of us, but they operate so differently, depending on in Indiana, we were set up legislatively, but I don't think that that's universally true. And so again, the ways that we operate within our state ecosystem, I think some are more directly department, you know, parts of their State Department, again, in Indiana, where we work closely with our department, but we're not directly connected. And so anyway, good reason for companies to be confused. But I think one of our earliest conversations, I think that companies sometimes maybe undervalue What Sarah, talking to a service center could mean for them, right? Maybe. And when I'm meeting with folks, I tried to be transparent about this. Sometimes I am the decision maker, like there might be a product that depending on what it does, the service center itself needs to buy that or but in other situations, it's maybe we're not the purchaser. But we might, you know, be the door to we know the district's so well and know exactly what they're looking for. And so sometimes, I can get them right to the person they need to be talking to, and they can skip 10 steps, because I already know the answer, right, who they need to meet. So what's interesting is just, I think some companies really love to talk to service centers. For that reason other companies think that maybe we're not the quick sell, or it would be easy to assume that. And I think they're wrong, Sarah, I think that they are wrong. But again, depends on the dynamic, like I know, in New York State, the BOCES, which is kind of like us, like they just operate so differently, I can understand why you would never really even in the state of Indiana, all of the service centers are so different, like I'm governed by a board of superintendents in my region. And so that creates a little bit of a flavor of where we put our focus. Nonetheless, I think that the point of your question there is to say we've talked about this, that we are kind of a hidden gem, I would
Sarah Williamson:Yes, I totally agree. So don't take service say, centers for granted and keep them on your I don't want to give you more people reaching out to you, but they're definitely important to consider service centers, a potential pivotal client. Okay, so that's fantastic. That's super helpful. I'm curious what some of the districts I know, you work with multiple superintendents like you share their governing board. What are you hearing these districts are facing right now in terms of challenges. In particular, I kind of want to dig into teacher retention, because I've read some fascinating articles just today from the Atlantic and Chalkbeat, stating that there's actually not a teacher crisis going on. It's all totally inflated. So what are the challenges in two? Do you agree with that?
Katie Lash:Oh, yeah, that's a great question. So challenges. I mean, truthfully, not to jump ahead. The teacher shortage, I would say is what folks are citing, but I'll circle back to that. I think that reimagining like using this moment to reimagine the post COVID school what, why we do what we do type of like self evaluation, right? I've heard many of the leaders say, you know, it's almost harder right now than it was during COVID. Because like, everyone gave a ton of grace during COVID. Or like, we're all just in this together. We're trying to well, now everybody's like, we're back now get your act together, have all the answers right. And so I hear that from them a lot is the now what we're back and what pieces of that learning experience do we want to keep with us and what pieces do we never want to have to deal with again, right. So I hear that from them a lot is really we've all
Sarah Williamson:Absolutely. experienced so much change in the past some years people are kind of worn out on change. But at the same time, I guess in a summary, people keep saying, let's go back, let's go back to normal back to normal. Well, maybe we shouldn't go all the way back, maybe part of the way back. And so anyway, I think that for school leaders trying to evaluate what that means is the biggest question, but it's very, like philosophical, very, like world one type of job. That's backwards. World War 1 and 2, you know what I mean? Do you know what I mean by that? I do. I do. And I think that I would definitely hear that. I mean, that's what everyone's trying to
Katie Lash:Absolutely. consider is how, how do we go back to how much technology do
Sarah Williamson:It's not the only data point? you incorporate in everyday school? How much is too much? How much are parents gonna get fed up with? Yeah. And figuring out that balance? Because it's, it can be incredibly beneficial and helpful. And it's a great data point.
Katie Lash:Absolutely. Well, it forced us to, I mean, folks that were relatively slow to move for system a little faster and some of those respects. But again, which pieces do we want to keep? But all of that another kind of on the same line of logic is, you know, Esther, and there's no, I want to talk about this later. There's no question companies, no schools have asked for money there. It's all out there. Right. So everyone's coming in half. But what I hear a lot of districts saying to is, you know, making decisions that are sustainable when this money goes away, just because we haven't now, questions about that, like, what things do we put in place while we have this moment, but what can we keep? We don't want to build a system that we can't live up to when the money goes. So but cycle back to teacher shortage? That, again, that's probably what I hear. Number one, I mentioned this earlier, but sort of a lot of very small and rural school districts. We have a couple of by Indiana definition, some some larger size districts, but then again, that's different in different states, too. But I think that, in my opinion, this is Katie Lash opinion, not so much the service center collectively, but in not only is there a teacher shortage, but in rural Indiana, it's even harder, right? So if there's a sample pool of like total available educators in Indiana, many of them are not moving to my very small town that only has $1 General, right, like, we're not like people aren't moving it over here. Like you have to have like a reason your roots have to be here. And so seeing a lot of districts look towards pipeline, you know, your future teachers are probably sitting in those seats right now in your high schools. And so really working that angle to where I think that some other communities probably are driving, bringing young professionals to these cities that are growing. So like I said this quote a lot. And a lot of grants that are right, why not Indiana as a whole is projected to grow by 2050 supposed to grow by like 12% in East Central Indiana is projected to decline in population by 15%.
Sarah Williamson:Wow.
Katie Lash:So that's quite a swing.
Sarah Williamson:Yes.
Katie Lash:And so people are moving in, but they're not moving here. Right. So the teacher shortage idea, I think that we do see some folks disproportionately affected and obviously the same data surrounding like, the challenges of teaching in more urban settings and whatnot. But I guess I'm citing this as the total populace total available humans to choose from, there are fewer here. And I love that about where I am. I love that about our school communities. I think that it makes a really excellent learning experience again, the superintendence. But there are fewer bodies here, Sarah, there are fewer bodies Yeah.
Sarah Williamson:Are you looking to build brand awareness and expand your impact as an organization, but maybe you're struggling to find the ROI with your general marketing and PR efforts, it could be time to try something a little different. At SWPR Group, we approach every organization through the lens of how we can help them add the most value to the conversations that are happening in education today for one of our clients, the Institute for Education innovation, this led to the launch of SUPES Choice, an award that we co created to build incredible brand awareness and his firmly established organization as an industry leader driving impact, growth and awareness on every level. For Edmentum. This meant the launch of thought leadership panels at education conferences, and a new webinar series featuring influencers and partners that are making a difference in education. What will your success story be? Let me know when you're ready to get started. Reach out at Sarah with an H at SWPR-group.com(sarah@swpr-group.com). We look forward to hearing from you. What's interesting about the articles that I read is that that's been the case for years and people are creating the narrative that it's happening right now. And only right now, like this is the moment this is happening. It's becoming this cataclysmic crisis. I'm just curious, do you think that's been going on within your community for a long time or more so now than ever?
Katie Lash:Yeah, I mean, we've seen this pattern occurring. I think if you asked a lot of like hiring officials within school districts, whoever that wears that hat, I think they would have told you that everyone's kind of been saying this was coming for a long time. I think probably the reason we're seeing in the news now is just like we're genuinely in, in some situations, actually at a breaking point, like we had a district in our community as a result this pretty quick, but they had no superintendent, no principal, no high school guidance counselor. Like, that's how hard to open a school.
Sarah Williamson:Uh huh.
Katie Lash:And so again, it's, I think folks would say that this trajectory has occurred for a while, but now it's like, no, like, we were serious. There's no one. But I read an article, which I find interesting. I felt this is where you're going to head with it is that, you know, we don't necessarily have a teacher shortage, the teachers exist, they're leaving this particular field, right. Like teachers, there are plenty of licensed teachers. Teachers are a really hot commodity to be recruited into other professions. Right?
Sarah Williamson:Oh, yeah.
Katie Lash:They have skill sets that are very tricky.
Sarah Williamson:Like our friends and tech companies?
Katie Lash:Absolutely. Like,
Sarah Williamson:Yes,
Katie Lash:My husband, but so I've good educators have a pretty well refined skill set and valuable to lots of industry sectors. So anyway, the article was saying we don't have a teacher shortage. There are teachers, we have like a problem keeping them in school, which again, I don't think that surprised anyone. I just thought it was an interesting point, if we don't have a teacher shortage, because they're out there. We just aren't getting our work at the schools.
Sarah Williamson:Yep, so true. Okay, interesting. So those are the challenges. What are you excited about as we enter the 2022 2023? school year?
Katie Lash:Yeah, that's a good question. Actually, I had a legislator call me the other day, almost asked me this exact question. And I did not have my words as polished. And I'm not that they are now either. But I think I genuinely mean this, that there's an energy among the school districts to want to learn from one another in a way that I don't know, I don't think we've seen here really recently, and not that there wasn't a desire before, to work together or to problem solve together. I think that's obviously always been true. But in a strange way. COVID brought people around that idea, like nobody knows the answers. So let's call let's get people around the room to Think Tank. And so I genuinely see for me personally, or in my agency, I'm really excited to see the districts authentically using the service center and letting me help convene them as a lot of fun and just hearing them brainstorm together. I don't know, I feel validated, I guess by that. So probably, that's a selfish answer. I feel validated that they appreciate that of us. But I also had to know kind of what I was saying earlier about the like, going back, I think it's exciting that of what's ahead. I think, folks, generally speaking, again, teachers that were slow to move on technologies or whatever the thing is, we dove in headfirst with COVID. I don't know, I see people more willing to try things that once were impossible for seemed impossible. Yeah. Right. It's like, you know what, we did that before? And so I don't know, I see a little bit of a cultural shift of, again, we're teacher shortage. We're losing teachers. Again, the poll. I think every every market is looking for employees. So that's Aren't you still looking one for one, sir?
Sarah Williamson:I sure am. Thanks. Yeah. Yeah. 10,000$10,000 To someone who sends me that person. Yeah, Keep that in mind.
Katie Lash:That was my effort. Just there. You're welcome.
Sarah Williamson:Thank you.
Katie Lash:If somebody listens to this podcast. If somebody listens to this and works for you. I'm in. anyway. Yeah,
Sarah Williamson:Yep, it goes to Katie. Yeah.
Katie Lash:Nonetheless, I think so again, but teachers who will are staying in the classroom, and I think there's a new energy, maybe an exciting time for innovation. So I'm just excited to watch that.
Sarah Williamson:I know, I totally agree. I think it's almost like
Katie Lash:Change is hard.
Sarah Williamson:Change is hard. But it's like almost less of a fear of failure. Now that we've had an opportunity to fail, and we got through it, you know, we can fail again, we can keep trying. I think that's definitely a tone that I've been hearing as well.
Katie Lash:I probably learned that more personally, I was just actually having this conversation with one of my teammates today that like, I think I've become very well versed in the like, I don't know, I'll get back to you.
Sarah Williamson:Mm hmm.
Katie Lash:And, like, that was a thing that probably I wasn't as comfortable saying until, like, more recently, and I think the unknowing is kind of exciting, because we could go learn it.
Sarah Williamson:Yeah, totally agree. I know. I love that. Okay. So, on our show, Katie, we're gonna focus on thought leadership and education. And we want to support organizations and provide strategic guidance on how they can increase brand awareness and align their organization with other influencers and leaders within the industry. What are you seeing companies do well, in this way? And can you share any of the strategies that you think lead to richer discussions, more authentic connections that you're building with these companies and these individuals?
Katie Lash:Yeah, well, yeah, this I mean, I think this is a
Sarah Williamson:Right. whole episode later in the season right about specifically
Katie Lash:But I really like the person and I still don't clearly this so like keep in mind, like I have not worked in the sales field per se came to explain to you my trajectory, strictly education, but I can tell you what it feels like on like their product, right? I mean, relationships matter to get you through the door relationships matter for you to have more conversations. But if you're coming to the service center, and you want in front of my superintendents might be the receiving end of the sales, but so I can tell you what to like, I really like you, but they're not going to be interested in what you're selling. So product matters. And obviously, again, that maybe sounds so obvious to say or how it lands to me. And so I think that companies partners something, but it's like, where are you in the spectrum? What? How do you make my life better?
Sarah Williamson:Right
Katie Lash:If I use your product,
Sarah Williamson:What problem are you solving?
Katie Lash:What problem are you solving and get to that point services, really something that I appreciate. And I was actually pretty quick, because I'm not gonna like, try to figure out what you're selling for the whole, like phone call, like, tell me what you're selling. Because I need to know where you asking a buddy about this earlier, too. There's no secret fit in this ecosystem. That's the thing that I think is an interesting, like, there are genuinely situations that I can listen to a person for a long time or an email that I'm that relationships matter. Right? reading, and I'm like, I don't even know what this is. So like, I don't know what you're selling me, or
Sarah Williamson:There were so many two minute drills at the Institute for Education Innovation Summit. So many people will do their two minute drills, and I still don't understand what they sell or who they are.
Katie Lash:Yeah.
Sarah Williamson:And what a two minute drill is where they give their pitch to the superintendent's in the room. And it can be difficult to distill down. But that is,
Katie Lash:Yeah, Well, I think there's beauty. Now to know, both sides of this. I'd be super curious as the season goes on. And we talked to some partners be curious their perspectives on this too, like companies that want to do a little bit of everything, districts life That, to me, my one stop shop. On the other hand, when somebody tries to be someone's everything? I don't again, I don't know what you do differently than XYZ, like what are you good at? Because if you just tell me, you're good at everything that I don't again, I don't know what you sell. What is it?
Sarah Williamson:Yeah, I'm highly skeptical of though I'm great at everything. I'm always just naturally skeptical of that, like, really? Are you really great at everything? Or is it just these a couple things that you should focus on? So it is an interesting thought and a conversation. And one of the things we focus on at our company, and in this thought leadership approach is, don't talk about yourself, don't talk about your product. And it's really that higher level coming in partnering with organizations bringing education leaders on two panels, doing award submissions together, not talking about your product all the time. Really, it's about building conversation about what are those key trends industry? changemakers? What's happening in education today that you can talk about, without talking about yourself, that can lead to more impact?
Katie Lash:Well, I think I sent you the other day.
Sarah Williamson:Yeah,
Katie Lash:I was reading an article, a company or as a person that wrote this whole article, it was so well done. I don't know if you had a chance to see that. But they never once talked about that they were a company like only did I know that that was the company, because I knew the person that wrote it. But it was so well done to like, identify a need supported by data like and then oh, by the way, that company actually has a solution to that need. What a coincidence, but it didn't at all read like a sales pitch. Not at all. So I think that's an interesting strategy. And that's what you're kind of saying I think your company is really good at helping people think differently.
Sarah Williamson:Yes, op eds, getting bylined articles out there talking about key issues, bringing in data talking about where you help solve the problem without talking about you. Exactly. That was a beautiful op ed that you shared. That was perfect example,
Katie Lash:And you actually do solve the problem, like authentically, then you don't really need to tell people that you do. Yeah. Like they're like, Oh, you're the solution. I was looking for your like your Yeah, you're right. Welcome. Welcome to my accompany buy my products.
Sarah Williamson:Exactly. It's a much easier sell, and you're actually not even selling them. They're coming to you. It's just such a different approach. I agree. Okay, so that's interesting. And I would love to understand what you hope to achieve this season with Build Momentum. What do you want people to gain by tuning into our discussions? And talking about thought leadership and talking about educators and how these companies can better reach education leaders in a more authentic way? What takeaways do you want people to have the season? Yeah,
Katie Lash:I just I think it's an interesting intersection where your job and my job and like experiences overlap, just honestly to authentically have these conversations and for folks to brainstorm this along with us. Like I've said things to Sarah before, like, that was really annoying. And then she's like, Well, how could a company have done that better? And I'm like, Yeah, I'm not really sure. But I know I was annoyed by it. Like, whatever the piece is. So I think that through the season, what might be exciting. Some of the folks we have lined up, I want to hear their perspectives too. Right, like they might be able to change my mind, right? Or I guess to that same point is maybe I've said something that people are like, Oh, I never thought of it that way. I didn't think about what it feels like when I call a service. Well, that's okay. I know a whole different episode. But like when they send a blanket email that talks about how you're going to help my district, you obviously don't even know that I don't have a district. So like, you didn't do your research on me, like that was just a blanket email, that's good way to get deleted. Anyways, things like that, that folks didn't even think about what it might feel like through violence. So I think that that's what I hope that this season reveals itself. I'm excited to learn. I'm so excited to hear from you, Sarah, excited to hear from the guests. And maybe I'll say something that nobody thought of,
Sarah Williamson:Maybe you will,
Katie Lash:Because of my weird perspective.
Sarah Williamson:I love that. And I actually think that's a great point. We don't have all the answers. We are not always the experts here. Although we sometimes think we are. We still are learning as well. So it is it's like brainstorming with our amazing guests that we're going to have and it's going to be a fabulous season. So thank you so much for joining us. We couldn't be more excited to kick this off. Welcome to the showm, Katie Lash.
Katie Lash:Thanks, Sarah.
Sarah Williamson:So in this upcoming season of build momentum, we're gonna dig deep into thought leadership and education uncovering what's working from multiple angles, including interviews with superintendents, future plans for the US Department of Education, conversations with district leaders who have leveraged their thought leadership platforms to transform their districts and how vendors and district leaders have the potential to work together to elevate their profile and awareness in a meaningful way. We can't wait to get to all this good stuff. Thanks so much for joining us today. And we look forward to seeing you next time on Build Momentum. If you're looking for more of this thought leadership goodness for your organization, you're in the right place. Visit us at SWPR-group.com To learn more about how we work with education organizations and their leaders, superintendents and influencers to increase your impact. Again, that's SWPR-group.com. Thanks for tuning in today and we will see you next time on Build Momentum.