S03E17 - BookTok sensation uses social media to learn to read | Oliver James

In this episode of Build Momentum, Sarah and Katie are joined by Oliver James. Oliver is one of social media’s rising stars and an influencer on TikTok, where he was able to learn how to read through his fans’ support and encouragement.

Some Questions We Ask:

• What is your story? (00:52)
• When did you realize you needed to tell the TikTok community and your fans about your situation? (02:06)
• Did people around you know you were struggling? (04:51)
• Tell us about a teacher who changed your life as a student. (30:10)
• Do you associate behavior with reading? (36:33)

In This Episode, You Will Learn:

• About Oliver James’ humble beginnings. (01:04)
  The buildup of life and emotions that prompted him to share his situation. (02:39)
  How Oliver struggled, what the people around him knew of those struggles, and how he was able to cope. (06:08)
  How teachers helped him change his student life. (30:31)
  The associations between reading and behavior. (36:47)

Quotes:

“There's this destination I'm trying to get to as a speaker. But this reading journey has to happen first. I need to become a better reader so then I can become that better speaker.”

“I would say  for teachers out there, [if] a kid is struggling, just let him be himself and then entertain his world.”

“One of my main goals is to try to make people understand the value of choice. Not just the simple value of choice, I'm talking about digging deep into the choice and being like, “I could choose to be happy, even when I'm sad,” and you be like, “Oh, if you want to give it a try, it's gonna be hard.” But if you break that barrier to pull yourself out of sadness into the smiling joy of laughter, you will be the most joyful person on earth, because you have learned how to overcome things that are way beyond people's comprehension.”


Connect with Oliver:
Oliver James' TikTok
Oliver James' Instagram
oliverspeaks1@gmail.com

Stay in touch with Sarah Williamson:
Free Case Study Guide
SWPR GROUP Website
LinkedIn

Stay in touch with Chad Bolser:
LinkedIn

About "The Secret to Transformational Leadership," which Sarah co-authored with Dr. Quintin Shepherd:
Transformational Leadership Secret website
Purchase the print or ebook

Transcript

Sarah Williamson: 0:04

Hello, and welcome to Build Momentum, a show where we explore thought leadership and education. I'm Sarah Williamson, the founder of SW PR group.

Katie Lash: 0:13

And I'm Katie Lash, the director of the east central Educational Service Center.

Sarah Williamson: 0:17

Together, we explore how to leverage key partners, your constituencies, and the media to authentically impact your organizations and the leaders who champion them. We can't wait to get started. So let's dive into today's show. Okay, wow, we are so excited today, we have the pleasure of having Oliver James on our show. And if you haven't heard about Oliver, he's a tiktok sensation, who recently learned to read through the support of his fans on book talk all of our James, it's such a delight to have you on our show today. Welcome.

Oliver James: 0:50

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me.

Sarah Williamson: 0:52

Yes. Well, you start by sharing your story with us with all of our listeners and with us.

Oliver James: 0:58

Okay, well, part, do you want me to start from the TIC tock version? Or before?

Sarah Williamson: 1:02

Let's start at the beginning, let's start at the beginning.

Oliver James: 1:04

Oh, okay. If we take it back to enough where we can handle one, you know, just with the time we probably have, from when I was a child, it was a rough time for me coming up, I was abused in elementary school and didn't know it. I went through, you know, that system of, you know, trying to unwind what happened to me as a child to a now you know, every day learner and reader, I didn't learn how to read for almost 30 years, I would say of my life, the past like three years, I've really focused on trying to change that I really ramped it up not too long ago on tiktok, and told everyone that I couldn't read and it kind of unwind it my life and started to open up new doors for me to start learning how to read. So I've been on this journey now since about October with everybody on social media to become a more efficient reader and to overcome some of my childhood traumas that I was endured with, I guess,

Sarah Williamson: 2:05

that's amazing.

Katie Lash: 2:06

Yeah. So Oliver, I was checking out some of your tiktoks, by the way. And so I have a couple of questions in a row here. On one, you were just kind of talking about it, you like kind of discovered through your tiktok journey, like you had this eureka moment of sorts that, like you discovered you weren't reading. So I was just curious, as I was watching that, you were like, I kind of didn't know, I didn't read until now kind of thing. And so I'm curious, what made that become obvious at what moment where you're like, Hey, I can't read and I'm going to tell my tiktok community, like what was that moment?

Oliver James: 2:39

It was a buildup of life, I would say first, you know that it's not something that you're just going to be just like, oh, today, I'm going to be bold enough to do something that's, you know, one of the hardest things I'm ever going to do in my life that I thought, you know, so I would say it's hard to answer the question. It's a buildup of, like, of emotions, I guess you can say, I don't even know. I mean, it's hard to answer the question. As I go on. I think I can answer.

Katie Lash: 3:01

No, that's fine.

Oliver James: 3:02

But yeah, I don't I don't even know to tell you the truth.

Katie Lash: 3:04

No, I think that's just fine. I was just wondering if somebody like presented you a document or something, and all of a sudden, you're like, I'm frustrated. I'm gonna tell Tik Tok, but you're just said, it's like a summation of a bunch of things.

Oliver James: 3:16

Yeah. Well, my lady brought it to my attention to talk to tiktok about struggles. It wasn't supposed to be too much about like reading, I want to be a motivational speaker so bad at that time. And I still like him in that process. I didn't understand like, what it takes to be what you want to be like. So when I think about, I'm like, I don't know what it all means. But I have this dream of becoming, you know, this motivational speaker of like, I don't know, like, and being him like, I can't explain it. And every time something gets in the way of that, it's a release of like that, you know, so that was a part of that time, like I was just in a moment, and I'm like, I want to be a speaker. And I'm looking these things up, and I'm researching. I'm doing all these things. And I'm like, I can't frickin read. I'm like, Oh, I wish I can just read. I'm just so mad at me. Because if I could read people would know, I can do this. I could do this. And I just find it was like, read, go tell people you can't read. And my lady was like, Yeah, you need to be honest. Just tell them you can't read. And then you can work on reading. And then I was like, oh, so just get rid of the fear and then become a reader. And I'm like, Cool. And I just really like ran outside and was like, what's up? I can't read. I'm like so and I'm like, there. Now it's out. So what do I do now? And that's what's been happening since October. Like I put it out there. But I'm like, I'm still trying to learn what is what because I'm like, I'm no, there's this destination I'm trying to get to as a speaker. But this reading journey is first I can see that this has to happen first, like this all needs to develop, I need to become this better reader so then I can become that better speaker. So I don't know. It's like a journey together. If it's one it's like a love duel.

Sarah Williamson: 4:50

I love that.

Katie Lash: 4:51

No, I love that. That's exactly what I was curious about. All right. So I think you answered that question so well, that really it's the story of like, I How it was impeding your career. And it didn't really catch up to you until all of a sudden that you were like, I need to unlock the world through reading. That's awesome, though. I mean, good for you for like, just sharing that story with the world. And so then I have another question. So I was a teacher than principal, I don't know if I even told you that teacher principal. Now I work with a bunch of school districts. So I'm still like, pretty closely connected to the school setting. And so I can't help but wonder my teacher hat is, do you think that your teachers understood the magnitude of your struggle in reading or, like, I reflect on this, like some of our systems in place, we might not notice that a kid is struggling, because you're clearly pretty verbal, like you could share your story when you're talking. A lot of kids can kind of hide that they don't know how to read because they can talk their way through it, or they can find strategies to kind of like, we don't actually necessarily see the struggle, which is, obviously is the thing that teachers will always continually work on. But do you think that that was your story that they didn't really know? Or do you think that they knew? And, like, it was just, I'm just curious, do you think people knew that you're struggling?

Oliver James: 6:08

Yeah, I think people knew I was struggling in a lot of things. I just, I just think it was at that time wasn't something that people were willing to point out, you know, so that's just how it kind of goes, you know, no one wanted to take blame for me, everyone had a part in it, you know, they created me, you know, you got to realize, so no one wants to take that responsibility on. So it's just like this, keep them alive. Just keep pushing them, man, as long as he's, you know, long, he's already there. Cool. Like, alright, just let them through this year, like, let him do life this year. Like, it's like, why like, well, as long as he gets through life this year, it's fine. You know, it's like, but at some point in time, you know, now being a father, I have to realize that in life, you're a big part of who your children are going to become. And after look at it like that, like from that beginning part, and then see all the people who will play a part of this game, we're gonna have to pay as a father, you know, it's true. So who's my teachers? Who's this? Who's in his life? Where's he at? What's going on? And then I have to trust those people to do the right things, you know, teach my kid the right things and let them be safe in certain environments, like, so it's all big, you know, it all. There's a lot of, there's a lot of parts in it that wind down in this, I think, I would say for, for teachers out there, like who would like would want to know how, you know, a kid is struggling, just let him be himself and then entertain his world. You know, that's what I would say like, you know, you have a kid who swears and curses in class and ask them, How do you learn the curse words, you know, don't yell at them. And then ask them? How many does he know? Cool? And he'd be like, Well, why are you cursing the class and like, if you want to curse, just wait till class is over. And mean, you can sit in class and curse, if that's what you want to do. You know, so like, then it gives them options of being like, Oh, I don't care that you curse I just didn't want you to do in my class with the other students. I don't want to put in your bad energy on them at all. But if you want to curse you, you're more than welcome to hang out with me after class and will curse it out, like they can, it's like, that changes the perspective of their minds now. Now you're starting to see like, what, like, you're willing to meet me halfway, like you're willing to hear me like, or someone's like, Yeah, dude, I hear you like you to think like something human. Like, I know what you're going through, like, you know, I mean, I get it. And I think that's how you can figure out more about the students, you know, just see how they behave, see how they operate, and then meet them in their world, and then be like, Oh, crap, I was just living with you for a little bit. And I see that you're, you're going through this stuff, like, you know, if I have any experience on it, I might be able to help you. But if you live in their world for a little bit, and just meet them, wherever they're at, they'll be more than happy to share everything they want to share with you, I will, but they weren't really willing to meet me in my world, either meet them in their world, you know, that was like pouring water into oil, you'd have to work. It was like pouring water in hot oil. That ain't gonna work. It's not a good mix.

Katie Lash: 8:49

Oliver, I want to share with you interesting, you just made me think of a really kind of a moment changed for me in thinking when I was principal. I had a kiddo in my office. And she was just letting me have it. I mean, I was all of the words, all of the words I was. And it this really changed my thinking on in that moment, sometimes like this girl, she was just really trying to hurt my feelings, right? And again, it wasn't about me. Like she wasn't trying to hurt my feelings. Like she was having feelings. And I was the person that was sitting across from her at that moment, right? So she's just going and all of a sudden she goes, aren't you the principal? And I'm like, Yeah, I'm the principal. And she's like, why are you letting me cuss I was like, I'm not letting you but I can't necessarily think of anything productive to help you right now. So I'm just giving you your space. And just saying that she turned around and she was like, Well, I bet she talked talk to me like the whole story and we were able to work through it. And it was this moment of like, she was like, why are you letting me do that? I wasn't letting you but I don't have a better answer. And but then we could connect we connected so well that day of like we got through it. And if I had been mad about that at the beginning of the cussing moment. If I had been mad, we wouldn't gotten that far. Like, there was no reason for me to be mad. It was not about me. Like,

Oliver James: 10:07

yeah, yeah, yeah, I see where you where you go with that, like, I have this really like, good emotional kind of, I guess you can say connection with my well myself now, you know. And I can tell that since I didn't learn to read, I learned different types of way of maneuvering through the world. And one of those things are emotions. I'm very good with like, feeling out emotions for some reason. And I don't know if I could be a teacher, because those mini breakthroughs, I don't think I would be crying every day. Like if I had a breakthrough with it, because I didn't know what they do. That's the emotional thing that I get. That's the thing that I wish teachers felt the way I feel because many teachers out there I feel like would enjoy their teaching experience. Because if you really think about what you experience, when you have a breakthrough with a young person's mind, you literally you just put us like you'd literally just put like a magical spell into their brain now to understand that they can be heard. And now they're like thinking it's the first time I've ever been heard before. Like, that's a breakthrough in their mind. They're like What the frick just happened? Like, how did some I can be heard, and they're like, that was the first time I actually ever like flipped out and then the guy hurt. And now they gotta learn the next steps. You know, someone comes and teaches them, okay, well, you can't use this as your power, you know, now you have to learn, don't abuse this, don't abuse your outbreaks. But you know, just understand that they're necessary for certain causes, maybe a positive cause not to gain nothing. But to give something like you teaching these little things I can, I don't know, if I could be a teacher, because I would, I would understand what that feels like to now be able to imprint that into little people, I didn't get that imprint into me. And those things are happening to me now, as most, you know, I'm doing them to myself, I'm giving myself these healings and overcoming my own problems, and, you know, putting it out there on the world. But if I can give it to a young person before it gets damaged, you know, you save them before everything kind of gets too out of whack with them. And I think you know, especially like having, you know, someone like that and around to students, and just young people would change everything about them. I would look at it for myself, I wouldn't love that. A platform just to have been heard, like for my outburst. Just like let Can you hear them? Like can you hear them yet? I'm like, How much do I have to keep doing to us finally, just sit back and be like, you know, like, Yo, all right, dude, like, here's the stage would go burst out, like scream out whatever you want to yell like, tell me what is it to we're here we're listening. We want to say I'm like, excited anyway, I want like, dude, just like we're here to change it. Whatever you say, We're gonna try. We're gonna change some things from that like, Oh, all right, well, like it just you probably weren't even allowed to come back on this one. I'm like, I don't even know what to think about. I haven't built up so much. I got a lot. I gotta go rethink about this thing. And you know, that place is hard for adults to accept. Because like, then, you know, you feel like you lost everything you had to go through, you know, but that's how I look at it, you know, you let it go and give the students to space. It's kind of teach you how to teach them. You know what I mean? And then yeah, but that's hard. You know, because you did all your work, you went to college, you went through all these hardships, you went through them forgot the whole purpose of teaching, you went through all that struggles, and you're like, look at them not struggling at all. Let me You know, I mean, and you're like, well, that's the don't let them don't take it all away from them. Take all the struggle away, give them joy. Now, you know, after your pain, you know, they're gonna go through pain to now show them what joy looks like after pain. Don't show them what misery looks like after pain, like that's what a lot of people are doing running around looking miserable. And then we're showing the kids what it looks like after you get older. Like, that is the most terrible thing in the world, I would never want to get old. So I'm like, Hold on, why don't I be joy. So then the kids will be like, I want to kind of be like him. When I get older. I'm like, I want to be like me when I get older. I'm like, that's good. Like, that's a good thing I think like, so if we put that experience in the classrooms, teachers will have a much better outcome in life, and the students will have a better view of the younger experience, regardless of how they act.

Sarah Williamson: 14:03

Yeah, that's incredible. All over the so inspiring. I mean, I wish so many teachers could hear it's I know, teaching is hard. And I'm I'm not a teacher. But I am a coach, I coach, a couple of different sports for my kids. And I've had some very difficult kids. And I've tried to apply some of these practices with them where I'm not responding or reacting, but letting them have their space in it makes a big difference. Because you know, what the way they're behaving isn't about us. And I think that's what we all have to remember. It's not about us, like you said, Katie, these are small people going through massive trauma. And that's heartbreaking. And if we could just stay in that space. I mean, I know teachers day in, day out. It's different than a coaching a couple times a week, like it's easy for me to say right? I know, but we will just make such a difference for these kids. And if there's just that one adult that takes that time, it could transform that kid's life.

Oliver James: 15:00

Yeah, I mean, you gotta look at it's true. It's 100%. I wanted to say that if we could figure out how to make, and then my, one of my main goals is to try to make people understand the value of choice, but not like not just the simple value of choice, I'm talking about the, I'm talking about getting digging deep into the choice and being like, so I could choose to be happy, even when I'm sad, you be like, Oh, if you want to give it a try, now, it's gonna be hard. But if you break that, if you break that barrier, to be able to pull yourself out of sadness into a smiling joy of laughter, you will be the most joyful person on earth, does it because now you have learned how to, you know, overcome things that are way beyond, you know, people's comprehension. And sometimes in some ways, like, you're literally like, Okay, I'm going to value my choices so deep that I'm going to choose the emotion I give myself, no matter the circumstance I'm in, like, that's deep for me, I start to think about that. And I look at that, and I'm like, I could be in a bad circumstance and choose to laugh with joy right now you'd like it. And like, give it a try. I'm like, it's hard. But who benefits from that? You? You know, you start to think like, oh, no, I don't have to ever be sad. I'm like, No, that makes it sad. It does hurt. You lose a family member? You got to be sad. No, they taught you you should be sad, but you can smile at a funeral, if you want to. And like it's like, why would I choose to smile? I'm like, why wouldn't you? Why would you choose to put that type of gunk into your brain? When you choosing to be mean and angry and sad, or that's a poison in your mind? I wouldn't want to choose that for no reason your mom passed away. I'm like, I'm gonna probably smile after this cry. Like why? I'm like, because why would I want to stay in this? You can die in this moment. And this, this is misery? No, I'm like that. She's already gone. I love her to death. But I'm gonna smile. Now. I'm like, I think she wants me to be happy. And like and push all those emotions into her afterlife. Don't push that pain in there. I'm like, No, we're gonna be happy. But that's hard. And when you can think about that, like, okay, I can overcome these things. I can do that. I'm like, imagine what type of teacher you could be. Like, if you think about that. Like, you're like, I can control my own choices and emotions. I'm like, yes. So that means in any circumstance you get to see pleasure out of some of the kids pain. That's amazing. That's good. Now you're a good you're going to be a good to them because they're, you're going to bring them good when they're in the worst moments of their life because you're not connecting to them. You're not you know, oh, they're acting out. I gotta be like, you know, emotionally connected to it. No, no, you can love their pain. love their Burt's outbursts love it. Like I love that when the outbursts like that, like yes, you can love that you like you can choose to love that they're not behaving in your class, choose to be like, Wow, have such a wild and to get he's pretty cool. Like why I'm like, those kids are looking for a teacher like that. A teacher that's like, Alright, dude, like, you're doing the old jump on the desk thing. Cool. All right. Well, anybody else want to jump on the desk? Let's all jump on the desk. Like what I'm like, Alright. Well, I mean, if you want us to act out, act out. Like if it gets to a point where we got to take it, we go there with every step, but I'm never going to entertain it. As soon as I don't care if the kids removed from the class. As soon as it's done. Everybody comes back and I'm like, alright, well, we're all back. Anybody else want to jump on the desk? Let's have some fun. Like, okay, no, okay. You never have to worry that the kids will start to see like, How come you never like, you don't allow him to change you. I'm like, No, I'm teaching you something. Now. No one changes you. But you as it no one changes you. But he was doing what he was doing. I was in complete peace. I'm good. No one changes me but me. And that's what the teachers need to be able to teach to a student. Because now they're like, wow, like, no one can make me be like, ugly. No one can make me be fat. No one can make me be stupid. Like, no, that person called you up that hurt you. You're like, yes. Like, do you see he did all that I didn't out? Is he out? What are we talking about? Again? Who was that person in the class? You'd be like, how do you do that? I'm like, why don't you do that? You know, it's not how, like, why don't you do that? Why would you allow someone else to change? You? Never, ever. And when I was growing up, I was the master of that. I wanted to change the teacher. I wanted to see if she was or he was really nice. If they really, really liked teaching. If they really, really wanted to be here. I'm like, let me see if you really are who you say you are. Because I don't believe you. I'm like, I believe you're somebody else. And to be sure, nine times out of 10 9.9 times out of 10 they weren't always worth that I broke up. I was that kid but like, yeah, they're gonna quit. They were like, what the verge of quitting. They're like, I don't care. They will get to that level where they would almost call me the N word. And I'd be like, Wow, I knew you were racist. I'm like I was that kid. I pushed them. I pushed them so far. And I knew it. I knew it was going to be that way. But then you would get one person who would just make me who I am now, like, who were resilient to my outbursts, and it made me wake up and made me be like, so maybe you are one of the ones you're one of the good I'm like, I'm like, alright, well, I'm gonna give you, I'll give you good meat when I'm around and I will treat them good. They will be cool with me, I will be perfect. That's it because they will be real with me. And I'm like, Oh, they are? Yeah, he got a little issue here and there. But yeah, he's who he is. I'm like, I'm not gonna give him a hard time I'll be good in his class. And I would. And that's probably what's happening when nine times out of 10. The most frequent kids in your class and classes are with other students and teachers.

Sarah Williamson: 21:58

Are you looking to build brand awareness and expand your impact as an organization, but maybe you're struggling to find the ROI with your general marketing and PR efforts, it could be time to try something a little difference. At SWPR group, we approach every organization through the lens of how we can help them add the most value to the conversations that are happening in education today, for one of our clients, the Institute for education, innovation, this led to the launch of Supe's, choice, an award that we co created to build incredible brand awareness and his firmly established organization as an industry leader driving impact growth and awareness on every level. What will your success story be? Let me know when you're ready to get started. Reach out at Sarah with an H at sarah@swpr-group.com We look forward to hearing from you.

Katie Lash: 22:51

Oh, ever, you made me really reflect on something though. Like earlier in this when I just said like, Oh, it wasn't about me. Like if a kid is there is actually a fine balance there too. though. I as again, being in the classroom, being a teacher principal, like principle wasn't always popular, right? Like I was not always coming in to like when it was a fun time, always bad. So I also think so not taking things personal because somebody's having a bad day, but also riding the line of like, when I know I messed up, maybe I did do something that set off the kiddo and I need to own that to like, it wasn't, if I took away their cell phone, I should probably predict that they're going to be upset, right? Like, I shouldn't expect that. Like, no one's upset by that. Because I too would be upset by that if somebody came in and did that. Right. And so sometimes it's thinking about, like, was I part of the equation as a teacher, and sometimes I was the problem. So I need to know that and apologize and say, I actually I know, I angered you more than I needed to. And I was like, but I think sometimes we're so mad at the kid. And when, like, sometimes we did it and not on purpose or not with that goal. Or I mean, I hope people don't have that goal. But I think for me a learning opportunity was that I had to be like, I frustrated them. And I need to know that I did frustrate them. And no wonder that like, again, sometimes we asked kids to like if I spoke to other adults in the same way that we spoke to kids sometimes like the adult would be like, Why are you yelling at me? But the tone that we use with kids to like say sit down like Sir, like Sarah, sit down, you'd be like, what's the matter with you, Katie? Well, we do that all the time with kids. And we don't necessarily think about that. But that's that's a piece of the problem. Right? So whereas you were talking about that, I think I was discrediting when I say Oh, it wasn't about me it by making it that simple. Sometimes I was the problem. And I needed to admit that I was the problem.

Oliver James: 24:39

Oh, that's it. That one is pretty deep, because it's like,

Sarah Williamson: 24:43

yeah,

Oliver James: 24:44

yeah, I agree. And I was one of those kinds of kids who understood more than he needed to know. And I needed teachers to understand that I understood that that school wasn't a real place. So it was hard for me because I understood I wasn't in a real place. I was like, this isn't a real place. You're acting. You're not a real person, you're acting as a teacher, you're an actor, and I want to know who you are underneath the actor. And I was easy to see that I was in this school. And I'm like, man, and then they bring me into this fake place where people turn on their fake personalities, and they be these fake people. And I'm like, Who are they? Underneath all these people? I'm like, Who are they? There's somebody else. And I always to try to connect that I will be in like Walmart. And I'm like, Mom, why is she different in in Walmart than she is in school. And like, she's not her same self. Like her smile wasn't the same when you were with me. And she didn't say little smart comments. Like she says when she's in the hallways, like she's usually the smart comment, like, teacher, and she just said hello, Oliver today. And like, usually she's just like, get to class, Oliver. I'm like, Huh? I'm like, All right. I don't get that. And I'm like, alright, well, I'm gonna find out who she is. And he just figures out like, so I wasn't in school literally trying to figure out like, what's going on? Like, it's weird. But that was, I think my whole way of life of in school. Because I was like, it's true. Now being older. I'm like, wow, now that I do know that everybody had a role to play. They were coming to school as actors. I'm like, they took their job way more serious than it was they they became their jobs. I'm like, they were actors. They should have kept acting. And I'm like, they broke their acting and came into their true selves. And then I realized I was like, they're here because of their true selves. They don't like being themselves. Like I'm like, this is all wild in here. Like it was to me. It was That's exactly how it was going like Every one there, when you're in school and you have teachers, you have to think that like, you have to put that character on. And when that student makes you break that character and reveal who you are, that can be painful to a human being, you know what I mean? And like, that was who I was, was as a kid, you know? And that's what I wanted to do. And, and now I look at it, and I'm like, how do you teach that to teachers like that, you know, your character underneath your character has to be pure. If not, people like me are going to try to bring them out, like, you're going to come to school and put on a character, but then the character underneath is somebody else. And that character underneath you don't even like, um, like, if you, if you did, you would be here as you you wouldn't have to put on a fake teacher character, like, and that's what it was for a lot

Sarah Williamson: 27:14

Wow, that's powerful. of teachers.

Katie Lash: 27:17

That is powerful. You're making me do a lot of thinking today, Oliver.

Sarah Williamson: 27:20

I know, one thing you said Oliver, I think rings true for me. It's one of our clients, Kareem Farah. He runs the modern classrooms project. He's always talking about how we put these expectations on our kids that we as adults would never follow. For example, in class, don't look at your cell phone, don't engage with yourself, you have to stay focused on class at all times, sit in your seat stay focused on as adults, we're constantly on our phones constantly checking, constantly talking to people throughout our day, every two seconds. Why do we put these unrealistic expectations on kids that we as adults would never follow? So we just need to rethink this.

Oliver James: 28:00

Yeah, you have to take a step back, I would say that's what I just look at it. Like there could be so much more peace in these environments, if features or people sometimes if you just take a step back and be like, Ah, I got caught up in it. And it's you have to understand is like when you do get caught up in it. That's fun. Like you're like, hi, I got so caught up in it that I got emotionally entangled with a teenager. I'm like, holy crap, and like, Okay, I gotta pull stuff back real quick. I'm like, Why? Because I'm too deep in like, I'm realizing I'm like, This is not a real thing I got, I'm acting like, I gotta Who am I underneath this act, okay, this student needs to know that that's who I really am, like, you know what I mean? Like, I'm not in the end of the day, if a student pulls a person out of you, that you don't like, if a person can pull that person out of you that you don't like, that should be enough validation for you to know that you need to go sit with yourself and deal with the person that got pulled out of you know, if you got someone pulled out of you that you don't like, you should be able to go sit down with yourself and look at that and say, Okay, forget all of what happened out there. What everything would that I came out, who was that? Who was that angry person that came out? What was that nastiness? Now we'll sit with that person. Like, that's what you do. And then you'd be like, okay, that person can't ever come out again. But how do I figure it? How do I do that can be hard. These are hard things for, you know, an adult to be able to overcome. And then you go in and try to teach, think of that.

Sarah Williamson: 29:12

They're likely to blame the kid?

Oliver James: 29:14

Yeah, much easier. It's great. It's like, okay, let's forget this. Let's put this on the kids, then you wonder why it's always like, you know, it's like, it's hard for us to go tit for tat with kids. Because the kids are not living in that adult world, yet. They don't know how it feels to go through all those struggles that you're choosing to be angry about. So think about that. You're like you're choosing to pay bills to be angry about the bills you're paying. Like, it's like, the kids don't see that. Yeah, they're like when you're choosing to go to work to pay the bills you're like, but you don't get why I gotta go to work. I'm like, I know, I don't get it. But I hope I when I do get it, I choose to at least be happy with what I got. And like, that's what the kids are kind of feeling because they're not miserable yet, but we get miserable. Because we're like, Oh, I gotta go to work. Or I got to do this, or I got to pay these bills are gonna do this. I'm like, Okay, well, what about you get to go to work, you get to do this. You get to breathe. You get here. You get all this, you get to be alive today. How about you just get to do that today? Get that? And you'll be like, Oh, that'd be put it that way. I'm like, now how do you feel? I feel pretty darn good. I'm like, well didn't do good. What would you got? Like do that. And that's what kids can see. Kids can see that. It's a constant stress on adults, they see that gunk on us. They see all that you know the mean, in us remember it. And if you look back, when you're a kid, you're like, dang, I did used to look at the adults and be like, I seen all the good condom, and all the rules and everything that's going on. And they take it so serious. You take all the rules. So serious. That's what when the kids are looking at the teacher, they're like, gosh, they take these jobs so serious, like they really think they're that person, like this sucks. And then they really want no deep things about your insecurities and be like and say it. Like she didn't have that weird walk. And like it when people would end up like, and you know that your walk is from something that you really don't want them to talk about, like, you know, like, so think about these things. And you're like, they're not in that miserable world. They're in the world where they see things as pure as they can be. And they're like, that's what it is. It's tiring, like, you know, and they see you wrapped up in it. So then when you lash back out, all you get to us is your authority of what's going on the rules of this school. Like what are the rules, okay, I'm the leader. So I'm supposed to be like, You can't do this. Give me this. No, this and this. It's like, Oh, here you go. You're abusing your authority. Now you're really showing your true colors, showing who you really are. And then that's when you got to really go sit with yourself and realize like, dang, I just really took this job this series and took phone calls from people and didn't even like Gosh, what the heck have I become like, that's when you got to really look at that, like, Who have I become Like, wow, like I'm like, like, what is this mentally? It's a sickening and like thing. And that's Oh no, like, that's how I kind of start to look at it as when you're a teacher in those ways.

Katie Lash: 31:43

Oliver, can you tell me a story? I'm just curious. We're going way off. I just love listening to you and you're giving me so many thoughts. Can us share a time that like somebody did? Like, get through to you? Like, is there a teacher who changed your

Oliver James: 31:56

Oh, yeah,

Katie Lash: 31:57

Can you tell me one of them? Tell me the story of a time you're sitting down and you're like that one. I that's on my life is different. Now.

Oliver James: 32:04

There's a few teachers I have like that. I will say the one teacher that like when I used to be in like this school called like, centennial, it was like a special ed school. And I had a few people in that school, it was a school for people with special needs, and excuse me, and all they dealt with were kids who had really like, you know, hard ways of learning. You know, they were in I was one of the kids in the school was kind of just had more of I was there because of my behavior. It wasn't, you know, like I was around kids that really needed a lot more help. And I again, it was emotional type of kids. So I was like, I could see that these kids ain't got what I could do. So I would just humble myself and just just kind of mind my business, but I didn't do anything extra. And then I remember a teacher coming to me one time after, and he was just like, I kind of can't remember what I do. But I remember him being like, I remember my moment and feeling like he was just one of those like, because I was one of those kids. That was like a smart like, I was a smart aleck. Like I could think I remember in my mind thinking like, Is this my moment when the teacher is going to be rude with me? Like, he's just gonna happen. He's really gonna be ruin me. And then he did. And he was just like, he was like, What the hell are you doing that? And I was just like, what? He's like, What the hell are you talking about, bro? Like, you obviously know, you don't belong here, right? And I'm like, I'm like, laughing. I'm like, yeah, no, I'm like, what he's like, dude, like, you know, like, you pushed yourself to this to get to a school year. And I'm like, Hey, I like that. And I'm sitting there. I'm like, Ah, no, I'm like, I just, I don't know, I just don't like work and this and he's like, you're in a school now Oliver, where you don't even need to do anything. And you get an A for just being here. Like, then that's kind of school I was at, and then he was like, and you're failing that, like, you know, he was like, like, and then all the other kids who can't do what you do. Like, they want to be you so bad. And I was just like, what? And I'll be like, Nah, they're like, man, they want to be you so bad, dude. I'm just like, crap. And I'm like, alright, well, I guess I need to start kind of fixing this. And, you know, it was true, you know, they were being influenced by my behavior. You know, and these were kids that had a lot of special needs. And, and it wasn't easy. But I did remember like that teacher. And you know, I remember his name, his name was Mr. James too. But he was a cool teacher had another teacher too, that was a female. And she did the same thing. It was the same school. And I kind of feel like they all maybe came together and was like, let's just talk to this kid. Like, we talk to each other. And you know what I mean? And I remember her being like, Hey, what's up, come come with me. And she pulled me inside the printer room. And you know, and she was a beautiful teacher, too. So, you know, that didn't help either. Because I was already like, you know, I was like, eighth grade or ninth grade at that time. And I remember her being one of those beautiful kind of teachers, like, she was always nice. She was pretty, like, she had these ways about her. And I was like, already respect to her for that. And then, you know, I just chose to for some reason, and she pulled me into the printing room, and she was just like, hey, she was like, I brought you in here. Because like, I feel like you can step outside of the classroom setting and just kind of just come do some printing and stuff. Like, you ever use a printer. And I was just like, no, like, you know, like a tiny little kind of, you know, I was an ignorant kid. I'm like, no, like, you know, like, didn't even know how to talk. And she was just like, Well, come here. Let me show you. Like, you know, would you like to have them like Joe are like, I remember. And I can tell you this, I remember not feeling like I was in school. And that's why I can tell you with such a, like a distinguished memory, because she pulled me out of my element. She put me in a different world for a minute. And I was just like, well, I feel like a normal person right now. She's like, because you are and we're trying to show you that you're gonna we get it, you know, and she was telling me like, you've been hurt, you know, you want to be angry, you want to be mad. She's like, Okay, we all get it out of her like, but we're not that much older than you. And we are just here trying to just, you know, and just talking to me, I'm like, alright, well, why don't you just say that, like, you didn't have to, you know, it's just like, we're telling you now, like, just come in, to smile to do the bare minimum. Like, you know, just be yourself. Like, stop doing what I was like, and that was it. After that, that schools mainstreamed me back into my normal school. So I knew I was behaving well because they mainstreamed me back into my normal school and allowed me to go back to my normal school, because I started to behave better. So I do remember like, you know, so crazy. Like, I remember seeing the teachers after, and every one of those teachers, I used to hug and I still feel the same way about them. You know, all of them. Like I don't know what it is about it, but I think they all played a role in that time to just be like, Hey, man, we got to do someone Oliver. Like that's give him a little piece of what he would like. We know he would like this and they did and it was over. Like, I didn't want to leave the school telling us that now like I remember them put me in my mainstream school and I was like, I don't want to go to my mainstream school. I love it here. It is like it's much better. So yeah, that one, I am still now looking forward to hopefully going back to my hometown and being able to speak to that school. Like, I just would love to do that one time.

Sarah Williamson: 36:42

Oh, that'd be a powerful full circle moment.

Oliver James: 36:45

Yeah,

Katie Lash: 36:45

our listeners won't get to see your face, but your face lit up talking about them. Like your demeanor changed talking about them. And that was pretty special.

Oliver James: 36:54

Yeah, that school was debt school was pretty cool. Like they, you know, somehow, someway, I'm gonna figure out a way to give back to the school there were some game changers in that school. Like I said, they all had their had its own problems in any way. But it helped me I don't know how to explain it. Like it just they were so down to earth for me. And they, it changed me it changed my whole perspective of school. After that moment, I was like, I get it. Like, I know it now. Like, I think I finally broke. I was like, I don't need to act out anymore. I someone finally gave me the truth. Someone finally said like, Yeah, dude, you win. Like, we're, you know, we're trying here. Like, we're, you know, yes, we are who you think we are. And I was like, finally someone admitted it. I'm like, okay, I can stop being bad now. And the problem with that was, I've done it so long that I didn't know how to get out of it. So you do something for so long. And it's true, you get angry and stay mad for so long. You know, that led me all the way to prison. I'm not even lying to you. So I couldn't get out of it. I've became defiant so much that I was like, This is me now. Like, I don't want to get out of this. Like it was gonna be too hard. I would have to start over in life,

Sarah Williamson: 37:55

Right? And sometimes you want to stay bad because it's that protective layer. Like that's what protects you. So you don't know if you're not mad anymore? What's protecting you?

Oliver James: 38:03

Yeah, yeah, it was hard.

Katie Lash: 38:06

Oliver, do you associate behavior with reading? Like when someone gave you an assignment that was hard? Is that the moment that was often a piece of Do you think they played hand in hand or not necessarily?

Oliver James: 38:20

Yeah, most of my outbursts, or anything that had to do with me acting out in class was when you gave me assignments that I couldn't like, you give me a reading assignment that I couldn't do, I would run out the classroom, like I would be, I would lose it. So anything that had to do with that, so that was a deep insecurity that I don't think teachers were at that time, were really aware of how traumatizing it was like, I don't, I can't even explain it to you, you know, I was willing to go to prison because of it. So think of how traumatizing it is like, I chose to make decisions, like the choices I made. Because of me not knowing how to read if I knew how to read, I literally would be that person. And I still am that person now. And I will sit here and be like, I could be like this, I can be the number one motivational speaker in the world if I could read like the number one motivational speaker in the world. Like that's what I think in my brain, and my brain believes it's passionately. So in my head. I'm like, dang, the only thing that's holding me back as being just as good a reader as the number one speaker in the world. I'm like, why don't I just become just as good as a reader then, like, you know those things hard, hard, hard, hard, hard to like you like to admit and just follow through with, I guess you can say,

Sarah Williamson: 39:25

Look at you now though, this is incredible. Thank you so much. Should we probably wrap up, Katie?

Katie Lash: 39:31

Yeah, well, and yeah, when so many questions that are just based on what you said, Oliver. I think that wrapping this up if folks want to learn more about your story, I mean, obviously tiktok already found you there. But where else can they contact you or get to know you?

Oliver James: 39:45

Well, all my platforms are all Oliverspeaks1 lot of people if they want to, like put me in a position where they want me to speak to them, or they're like a classroom or something like that, email me at Oliverspeaks1@gmail.com. And that'll be the easiest way to contact me and like, speak with me if they wanted to set up something to talk to me or have me speak to their students, because I know people do that as well. And yeah, if you will follow me on all my social medias, then you'll see a lot of the stuff I post up and keep this reading journey going. See where it takes me.

Sarah Williamson: 40:18

Love it! Well, I think it's gonna take you to the number one motivational speaker in the world if I hear you correctly.

Oliver James: 40:23

Yeah, you know what it's, you know, you put these type of things out there into the world. And I'll be honest, it's hard to even fathom. But if I truly believe that the only thing holding me back is not knowing how to read that. Well, then, yeah, I'm going to overcome that goal, because the app just going to focus on become one of the best readers I can possibly know in the world. And when that happens, then who knows what will come with it. That's how I look at it.

Sarah Williamson: 40:47

You're on to something that's incredible. Thank you so much. I can't wait for our listeners to hear this powerful episode. Appreciate it. Oliver.

Oliver James: 40:54

Thank you.

Sarah Williamson: 40:55

Good luck on your journey.

Oliver James: 40:56

Yes.

Sarah Williamson: 41:02

If you're looking for more of this thought, leadership goodness for your organization, you're in the right place. Visit us at swpr-group.com To learn more about how we work with education organizations and their leaders, superintendents and influencers to increase your impact. Again, that's swpr-group.com. Thanks for tuning in today and we will see you next time on Build Momentum.