S04E09 - Durable Skills & The Future of Work | Tim Taylor, Co-Founder & President, America Succeeds

In this episode of Build Momentum, we are joined by Tim Taylor, who is a co-founder and the president of America Succeeds, a nonprofit organization committed to engaging business leaders in modernizing the education system. He also served as the founding president of Colorado Succeeds. One of the America Succeeds initiatives Tim highlights is Durable Skills, which includes a combination of how you use what you know – skills like critical thinking, communication, collaboration, and creativity – and character skills like fortitude, growth mindset, and leadership.

Some Questions I Ask:

• Tell us more about America Succeeds. (01:14)
• Based on your research, what skills are applicable to the workforce community? (02:50)
• Are you seeing more public- private partnerships with K-12 organizations now than the past? (06:10)
• How did America Succeeds begin working with the Indiana Employability Skills Innovation and Implementation Grant and what was the outcome? (08:16)
• How are you working with America Succeeds partners networks across the country?  (15:46)
• How do you recommend business leaders, partners, and everyone to work together and move this mission in a collaborative way? (18:13)
• How are you sharing America Succeeds stories? (19:50)
• What are your hopes about the future of work? (22:04)

In This Episode, You Will Learn:

• About America Succeeds (01:40)
• About durable skills for the workforce (03:06)
• About public-private partnerships with K-12 organizations (06:26)
• How America Succeeds and the Indiana Employability Skills Innovation and Implementation Grant intersect (09:07)
• About America Succeeds partnerships across the country (16:03)
• Tim’s recommendations for collaboration (18:46)
• How he shares America Succeeds stories (20:03)
• His hopes for the future of work (22:13)

Quotes:

“The challenge everywhere is how do we make a student's day look different or a classroom look different to practice these skills when we're asking so much of teachers already. And one of the things we discovered in working on this project is that it's not doing more, necessarily, it's just doing what you do a little differently.”

“It's rare that I have talked this long about durable skills without talking about one of our big drivers: economic mobility and equity. … There's been a lot of inequity.”

“The Association for Talent Development did a study, and 83% of employers complained about a skills gap. The largest two in the workforce are critical thinking and communication skills. We're hearing this over and over again; this is not an isolated problem.”

Stay in touch with America Succeeds:
Tim Taylor LinkedIn
America Succeeds Website
Durable Skills by America Succeeds Website
Email:info@americasucceeds.org

Stay in touch with Sarah Williamson:
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SWPR GROUP Website
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Stay in touch with Chad Bolser:
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About "The Secret to Transformational Leadership," which Sarah co-authored with Dr. Quintin Shepherd:
Transformational Leadership Secret website
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Transcript

Sarah Williamson: 0:05

Hello, and welcome to Build Momentum, a Podcast where we explore thought leadership and education. I'm Sarah Williamson, the founder of SW PR group.

Chad Bolser: 0:14

And I'm Chad Bolser Chancellor, Ivy Tech Community College in Richmond, Indiana. This season, we will launch a series exploring global workforce development and K 12 school districts and the leaders who are bringing this work to light.

Sarah Williamson: 0:29

We hear from CTE directors, superintendents and thought leaders on the topic of workforce development, how it shifted throughout the last several years, who is employing strategies that are making an impact and how they're sharing those stories with the broader education community. We explore how to leverage key partners, your constituents and the media to authentically impact your organization and the leaders who champion them. We can't wait to get started. So let's dive in.

Chad Bolser: 0:55

So today on Build Momentum, we are excited to have Tim Taylor, the co founder and president of America Succeeds with us to continue our series this season on K 12. Workforce development. Welcome to build momentum. Tim,

Tim Taylor: 1:12

Thank you so much for having me. It's great to see you,

Sarah Williamson: 1:14

Tim. It's so nice to finally meet you. I feel like we've been connected on LinkedIn for many years. Back at my Apex learning days, I feel like we did a couple sessions together at some point. But great to have you on the show today. And I would love to hear more about American succeeds. And what was the impetus for launching the organization?

Tim Taylor: 1:32

Yeah, it's great to see you as well. And you know, we've been running in the same circles for years says a historic moment them? Well,

Sarah Williamson: 1:39

For sure.

Tim Taylor: 1:40

Yeah. So really, America Succeeds, came out of an organization called Colorado Succeeds. That was founded almost 20 years ago, that was the business voice for education in Colorado. It was a group of business leaders who came together who said, as the end users of the education systems product, we hire these young people, we need to express our needs. And if we are not showing up, we get what we deserve. So we had an extraordinary board for a number of years in Colorado, Pete cores was responsible in the early days for helping us get going and woman named Donna Lynn, who ultimately went on to serve as our lieutenant governor, but she was at Kaiser Permanente at the time. And the idea was an organization that would earn and spend political capital to improve education outcomes for kids that for the mutual benefit of kids and the workforce, and ultimately having young people who could succeed in a competitive global economy and have a family sustaining wage and be able to contribute to their communities.

Chad Bolser: 2:36

It's super interesting. And just for the record, I think every time I'm anywhere with Sarah, in any capacity, It's historic. So I just think that that's just a rule to live by

Sarah Williamson: 2:48

There. That's true. Yeah.

Chad Bolser: 2:50

So but obviously, one of the things we're we're really excited about talking about is this idea of durable skills. Can you tell us more about the research your organization has identified when it comes to applicable skills for the workforce?

Tim Taylor: 3:06

Yeah, of course, thanks. So right, doing the work of working with employers and trying to figure out what they are looking for. And we've done a lot of policy and advocacy work at Colorado Succeeds. And then ultimately, America Succeeds over the years in a variety of states. And prior to the pandemic, we were doing a lot of work on really what a lot of people were referring to as the future of work. And we dubbed the age of agility that if young people needed to be agile in order to succeed in today's world, then it just made sense that education systems needed to be agile as well. And education systems are a lot of things, but Agile is not particularly one of them. And so it was really difficult, you know, a system level change. But coming out of the pandemic, right, we didn't know where 10s of millions of kids were, they weren't showing up for school, we had food insecurity, because a lot of kids only got their, you know, one meal a day at school, you had the George Floyd riots. So you have the equity issues coming front and center. And I don't think that the business community had the appetite to weigh in or knew exactly what to do. While schools were trying to sort of sort those things out. Those were really thorny components. So the flip side of the age of agility, the technical skills that young people would need are these durable skills, skills that last a lifetime, that young people that all earners learners will take with them for their entire career. So we can all think about the number of jobs we've had over the course of the career and the number of technical skills we've used from one job to the next. And we've most likely, you know, change those over the course of our career, but we use the same durable skills time and time again, regardless of where we are and how our careers have progressed. And so this is what we landed on durable skills are what we refer to some people call them soft skills are essential skills or 21st century skills. There's lots of terminology out there for these, but we think of them as how you use what you know, critical thinking collaboration, communication, and then how you show up. So your leadership, it is your metacognition skills, it is your growth mindset. It is those types of things. And I often call them the second rung on the career ladder, because without them, it is virtually impossible to succeed in today's economy.

Sarah Williamson: 5:18

Yeah. And it's interesting. You said there's all that absenteeism during the pandemic, obviously, kids didn't go to school. It's still happening. Tim, I don't know if you saw the New York Times article, kids still aren't going to school. Yeah,

Tim Taylor: 5:30

Yeah, we are having an enormous issue with that around the country, one of the issues that we see quite a bit is, you know, you can look at some of the things in student engagement has just fallen off a cliff. And we look at what teachers are trying to compete against in terms of the kids screens, and right, just the amount of information that is in front of them, and how fast that information is coming out, I'm in school most likely seems slow to a lot of kids, right? I mean, we still are using a lot of traditional systems. And that's a big chunk of what we're talking about with durable skills is that we realize we want young people to have these skills. But we've got to change what's happening in the classroom to make sure that kids are learning these skills. It's just not going to happen unless we're intentional.

Sarah Williamson: 6:12

I'm also curious if you've seen more public private partnerships with K 12 organizations now than you have in the past? Talk to me about that?

Tim Taylor: 6:24

Yeah. So it's interesting, I think the work has evolved a little bit over the time that I've been in this space, there were a lot of things around standards, right, No Child Left Behind, right, did some good things also did some bad things, but really brought a lot of focus and attention to disaggregated data, and really ensuring that all subsets of the population were succeeding without looking and just sort of the top line numbers. So you know, some of those things were pretty important at the time, not all of them went the way that we all thought they would, as performers, and education systems have needed this outside voice. And what business brings to that is this stability, they are going to be around a lot longer than any superintendent or governor or anybody else. So business being involved in sort of expressing their needs and wants, in terms of what it's going to take for young people is really powerful for them to be involved in what's happening in our schools. Sadly, I think one of the things that we're seeing across the country, right is how divided the country is. And then a lot of things. And this is showing up in schools and school board meetings and other things as well. And I think it's a little bit of a barrier for businesses to weighed in on some of those things, right, they don't get paid for fixing problems at school boards, they're worried about their shareholders and coming out and taking a position on just about anything these days is right a lightning rod for, you know, getting on somebody's good side or somebody's bad side, whichever it may be. So durable skills was really a way to help bring business back to the table, employers back to the table to say, you know, across every geography across every industry, regardless of education attainment level, employers are asking for these skills. So you're not splitting the CTE world versus the stem world versus the healthcare world versus right. Everybody wants young people to have this foundation to enter the workforce. And it's a uniting theme that we're really pleased has been as well received as it has.

Chad Bolser: 8:16

Tim, one of the really cool things about being a part of this podcast and a part of Sarah's work and all the things that happen is. Sometimes we look at our local entities, and we think, Oh, this is only happening here, or, boy, we have this a lot worse than anyone else. And the really great part about hearing you and others like you target this is really a nationwide conversation. It is something that is going on really all the time in all different types of spaces. They may people may use different languages, but it's really going on. But being from the great state of Indiana, it's appropriate for me to kind of address the American Succeeds work with the Indiana employability skills innovation implementation grant. So would you share more about how that came together? And the outcome of that work?

Tim Taylor: 9:08

Yeah, of course. So quick comments on right. The differences between states I think are oftentimes a little less different than everybody would want to believe. I have a colleague who sort of says every state would like to be their own very special snowflake. And yet, there are a lot of similarities. So particularly with durable skills, it's one of the things inherent in durable skills. They're similar across the country. In terms of Indiana, we were thrilled to partner with the state Department of Education because Indiana had a lot of really cool things in place. And they had actually written a grant that went out to districts across the state that referred to the America Succeeds work as it relates to durable skills. They refer to our report and so they were asking districts help us understand what this looks like in a classroom. How are these skills being delivered? What's changing so Indiana's portraits over graduate right really sets up and inaudible up that we want that the community wants these types of skills, that's state leaders. That's elected officials, that's parents, that's teachers. That's the employers, right? There's a lot of agreement around what we want young people to know and be able to do when they graduate, and get ready for their next steps in the school board pipeline. The challenge everywhere is how do we make a student's day look different, a classroom look different to practice these skills, when we're asking so much of teachers already. And one of the things we discovered in working on this project, right, is that it's not doing more necessarily, it's just doing what you do a little different. And one of the examples that we use all of the time was a math teacher who said to us, you know, in a math class, I can ask a group of students to get together in groups of three, work on a set of problems using different problem solving techniques, and then ask their students to go to the front of the class, and share with their classmates how they solved those problems. And while I'm still teaching my curriculum for math, whatever that is fourth grade fractions, or 10th grade geometry, I'm having these students practice collaboration, critical thinking, problem solving, verbal communication skills, presentation skills, multiple durable skills, at the same time, they're learning math. And that's the big trick is that in education, we tend to think of everything in terms of Carnegie units, that if you're not sitting in a seat for a certain period of time, with a class name, you're not learning something. But of course, you don't think critically from 11 to 1150, and then go to math, right? You think critically all day, you collaborate all day you communicate like, and that's what we've found in a lot of these examples. And there's some great highlights around what's happening in the state of Indiana.

Chad Bolser: 11:44

You know, Tim, it seems to me that the other thing that we get boxed into is that learning only happens during those periods of time, where the experience of a student is really rich, like we want all students experiences to be happens before the school day after the school day during those the, you know, lunch times, and the times in and out of the classroom. I think you speak to that of, we just need to acknowledge what folks are learning while they're in that presence of school.

Tim Taylor: 12:19

Yeah, for sure. And it's rare that I have talked this long about durable skills without talking about one of our big drivers, right is economic mobility and equity. And as you talk about, you know, the in you think about those things, and how these are happening in the classroom and where else they're happening. There's been a lot of inequity. Families that have some means their students are learning this by after school programs, music, arts, sports, dinner table conversation, world travel, you know, all kinds of different things where you pick up durable skills, when it's not embedded in a classroom or in the class experience. There's tremendous inequity for the kids that are having these really enriching after school activities, or while they're not in school, and the kids who are not and to, and we think that one of the things is so important to embed this in everybody's day, all day long, regardless of whether their path is to go right into work, or the military or anywhere else, these skills are going to drive their career and everybody needs these skills. This isn't like for a select few. So how do they practice? How did they learn to demonstrate? How do they learn the terminology? You know, one of the things we talked about all the time is think about, you know, getting to a job interview and somebody saying, when was the last time you collaborated? And what did that look like? Well, a student who was really practice collaboration in school and can say, Well, I mean, this could be a retail job, you know, while they're while they're in college, but being able to answer that question by saying, Well, the last time was was my science class, and the first thing we did was decided roles and responsibilities. The second was how we were handling conflict. The third was how we were going to handle deliverables. And I mean, that's the answer that gets you hired. When somebody says, describe to me the last time you collaborated, not I did a group project and Billy didn't pull his weight. So understanding what they're doing and practicing that and learning deeply what those terms mean, and how they applied it are the drivers that are so powerful as these kids go to and through their education experience.

Sarah Williamson: 14:15

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I think for us in our agency, we're seeking that critical thinking aspect of young grads and even employees who've been in the PR arena for a long time. It can be hard to find, and it's hard to teach that. So it's interesting, because it's very important when you're running a company like this. To have that critical thinking

Tim Taylor: 14:38

You are not alone. The Association for Talent Development did a study and 83% of employers complain about a skills gap, the largest two in the workforce, our critical thinking and communication skills, right? We're hearing this over and over again, this is not an isolated problem. One point to note that right, everybody is hired for any job ever wished for some combination of technical and durable skills. And we're all familiar with somebody saying, Give me somebody who has the durable skills, and I'll teach them the technical skills. I have never met an employer who said, Give me somebody who's got great technical skills and no durable skills, and they're going to be a great fit for my company doesn't exist will not last long anywhere. And there are very few employers who are willing to hire somebody who just lost their job for a lack of durable skills to take them on into their company, they can stifle entire careers by not being able to develop these skills and demonstrate them to an employer.

Sarah Williamson: 15:34

Yeah, so true. Well, let's crack that nut for sure.

Tim Taylor: 15:39

We do have a lot of work to do. Right? You're on the right path. And opportunities like this, to share our story are incredible. But but there's a lot of work to do.

Sarah Williamson: 15:47

Yeah, there really is. But we're here to do it together. And that is leads to my next question. I'm curious how you are working together with your America Succeeds partner network across the country to do just this work? Will you tell us more about how those localized efforts are driving results?

Tim Taylor: 17:36

Yeah, sure, certainly. So at the end of January of this year, we released the durable skills framework. And that framework includes a couple of things that is available on our website, and America succeeds.org, you can download that framework, there is a free Starter Edition that is available to anybody that wants it. And that framework includes a couple of things. One is a lexicon of these terms, because we've used a lot of different terms to describe the same thing. And so what we have there is the lexicon that employers and educators we've worked with over 800 partners around the country, some of the largest employers, education partners, as well, to come up with what that lexicon is. So now we have an agreed upon lexicon. And then we also came up with a rubric of what employers expect somebody to be able to know or do when they're entering the workforce, we set it up to be at about a 22 to 24 year old level. So after somebody has come out of school, they may have gone to the military, they may have two years of community college, they may have stackable credentials, they may have a four year degree, whatever it is, but that's about the time that employers are really clear on, here's what we want you to be able to do. That framework exists for others to be able to embed in their content and their products. America succeeds is not a content provider. So we need partners across the country who want to use that intellectual property to put it into their products, their services, their delivery, everything from teacher prep, how do teachers teach this? We're talking to assessment companies about how do you start to get kids to demonstrate these types of things built into curriculum built into community colleges, there's just all kinds of opportunities, we're working with a couple of states who have some of the pieces in place, again, like Indiana, this movement around portraits of a graduate is very powerful. And we're starting to see that really take off across the country, where the community comes together and says, Here's what we want somebody to be able to know and do. And what we're seeing is an average of four to six durable skills built into every portrait of a graduate we've ever seen. People recognize they want these skills. So we can only do this with the incredible partners that we've had across the country. And we're just getting started.

Chad Bolser: 19:46

So if I am in my local community, and I really want to know and move this mission forward, because it totally makes sense, right? Like we're hearing talk, and folks can agree upon this, and we have this moving forward. And you really want to move this mission forward. How do you recommend business leaders, educators, we will have legislators listening to this podcast for certain, you know, parents, families, how can they get together and move this mission for work together in a collaborative way?

Tim Taylor: 20:19

Yeah, great question. Thank you. Right. So talking about durable skills, first, even introducing that as a term of art and thinking through what we want young people to be able to know and do when they launch, regardless of where they're headed in that next step. I don't think that we don't split the difference of you know, whether this is for college going students, or is this for anybody who will have a job at any point in their life, which I think is a pretty broad cross section of our country, to be able to learn these skills, demonstrate these skills, embed these in our classroom, it's going to take a lot of partnership, it's going to take a lot of people to get behind the idea. We love I'll keep harping on the portraits of your graduate. But if a community has not come together and decided on what they want young people to be able to do, then anything that's happening in the classroom will get you there. So when we're clear on the outcomes that we want for young people, and they tend to include these types of skills, then the real work is figuring out how to make this part of every student's day so that they are practicing these skills and able to demonstrate these skills and that they're ready for a lifetime of using these skills.

Sarah Williamson: 21:23

Awesome. So Tim, one of the reasons we created this podcast was to elevate thought leaders in education and to understand how they're telling their stories. So tell me about How you're sharing your story in America Succeeds other than right here with us.

Tim Taylor: 21:36

I think we participated in over 80 public speaking events last year, everything from South by So we always try to ask this sort of question, every session Southwest to ASU GSB. I'm headed to the National Governors Association meeting in a couple of weeks, we are really just trying to let people know what we found out about durable skill. So at the beginning, I sort of glossed over right, we did an analysis of 88 million job descriptions between 2022 and 2023. So looking at every job that really hit the internet, through our partners, MC Burning Glass, or light cast is their new name. And what we found was seven of the top 10, most in demand skills across every job sector, every industry, every geography, regardless of education attainment level, are these durable skills. So at least letting folks know that these are the types of skills that employers are asking for. And then when we think about what's coming with AI, these are still the skills that humans have to do, at least for now, right? The machines can't quite get to this level, it might be coming. But for now, what we're seeing is an uptick in this. And then you also see, I think there are now 20 states that have removed a four year degree requirement for hiring for state level jobs. Well, a four year degree has been the proxy for durable skills for many HR managers, public and private sector, that they will take that resume off the top of the pile, because it at least it's the best proxy we've got going of there's some tenacity, they probably have some critical thinking skills, they've probably collaborated or communicated while they're in school. So if we're really going to level the playing field and remove four year degrees from hiring, and get more people into good paying jobs, figuring out how we're going to understand what young people have, and can demonstrate and durable skills is really a critical part of that process. So we're telling everybody we can possibly tell. And the good news is, it's being really well received, I think it is a little bit in the motherhood and apple pie category of if you want your kid to get a job, it makes sense that these are the types of skills that they're going to need. we have here, but what are you most hopeful about the future of work? I think what's interesting about the narrative that we're seeing with AI, and what's coming is a lot of disruption. And I think that that's scary. And I think it's scarce, and rightly so right, there are going to be some jobs that disappear. We know that. But I think that what it's going to do in terms of creating jobs can be just as big. And I think the piece that we like to focus on is what is it going to take to be successful in any of those jobs moving forward. And these skills that we talked about are durable for a reason, right? They will last over time. And although we're seeing a big shift and some disruption in the workplace, there is evidence that these skills are going to become even more important instead of less important. And I think that also in terms of the workforce. Another thing that we're hopeful for is this movement to skills based hiring, which is going to give more people who don't have four year degrees, right, and the college going rate has dropped by almost 10% Since the pandemic, so we have fewer people going to school, we're going to have to have some way for these people to get into and get good jobs, and they're available. And I think that's another component of this, too, is where the workforce is headed on that front two skills.

Sarah Williamson: 24:58

That's great. Well, this has been fantastic. Thank you, Tim, it's great to hear about the work your important work you're doing. Appreciate it. Where can our listeners find more about you and America succeeds? Where should they go?

Tim Taylor: 25:10

Well, thanks again, for having me. This is a great conversation and always fun. We'd love for folks to check out America succeeds.org, our website. And then we also have a website dedicated exclusively to durable skills, which is durable skills.org. So either way, you can find out more about the organization about what we're doing. There are ways to reach out to us My email is available there for anybody who wants to reach out directly. We also have other folks on our team. Again, anybody who wants to work on this, we're doing our best to partner with as many folks as we can to try and find out ways to get this out into classrooms and just about any type of delivery mechanism that we can find.

Sarah Williamson: 25:49

Yeah, that's great. And before I let you go, I should give a shout out to Edmentum. They're a client of ours, and I know you just partnered with them and you're close with Jamie Candee. So we'll tag all of that in the show notes.

Tim Taylor: 25:59

Yeah. Jamie is our board chair. She is extraordinary and has had a lot to do with the success that we're having in this. So she's the right one.

Sarah Williamson: 26:09

Yes, love her. Okay, well, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Tim Taylor: 26:12

Thank you guys so much. This has been really fun. I'm super grateful for the opportunity.

Chad Bolser: 26:16

Well when you get to Indiana now make sure and look up Richmond we will touch base and get together.

Tim Taylor: 26:23

Yeah, absolutely. We just saw that you are losing Jason Callahan and the State Department of Ed which is a little disappointing.

Chad Bolser: 26:30

Yeah, I have not stopped crying since that. He's been there. So if I looked a little puppy around the eyes, yeah. So we're sad to hear that but happy for Jason.

Tim Taylor: 26:40

Yeah, absolutely. And hope that there's enough going on with, you know, the bench that Indiana has. And again, you know, Indiana was doing a lot of things, right. We, you know, that doesn't mean there's not still stuff to do, but they're in it and they understand and they are making strides, which is really nice. No doubt.

Sarah Williamson: 26:56

Okay, we're gonna sign off now. Thanks, everyone.

Chad Bolser: 27:01

Thanks for joining us for the Build Momentum podcast today. If you enjoyed listening, we would love to hear your feedback, and would be grateful if you would leave us a review.

Sarah Williamson: 27:12

This helps us to share these powerful stories with even more people. If you liked what you heard, we would be honored if you could share this episode with someone in your network. We look forward to seeing you next time on Build Momentum.